The Liberals Are Right

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Wednesday June 12, 2013 · 6:32 AM PDT

2013/06/12 · 06:32

Josh Marshall posted yesterday (http://editors.talkingpointsmemo.com/...) that "Like the OJ Simpson trial almost twenty years ago, there are some public events which not only divide people but divide you against people you didn’t expect to be divided against. As a Republican you may be used to disagreeing with Democrats and vice versa. But with these other kinds of public events you have the shock of realizing you had very different sets of assumptions or even values than people you were used to agreeing with."

I don't have a lot to say on the issue of the NSA's domestic spying. It seems to me to be hugely important, though, and how the nation deals with it will likely have far-reaching impacts on our daily lives.

Marshall's comment made me think, though. The question for many Americans is, How do I know who's right on this important question?

If history is any guide - especially recent history - then the liberals are right.

Bush's decision to invade Iraq is a great example. The liberals were right. The hippies who protested and argued against the war, and withstood the clamoring of the GOP and the Democrats who abetted them - the hippies were right.

Years down the road it's clear the nation and the world would've been better off if we'd listened to the liberals.

Howard Dean, Digby, Atrios, etc.

I think this NSA domestic spying case is the same kind of deal. It's complicated, it's tough to be sure - but years from now I think it'll be clear that the liberal position - Greenwald, Atrios, Digby - is the correct one.

Non-violence in the face of totalitarian regimes?

Toadvine

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Saturday June 20, 2009 · 7:39 PM PDT

2009/06/20 · 19:39

I've been glued to the net for the past few days, watching the videos and reading the tweets from the people protesting for liberty in Iran.

I was heartened by the huge, peaceful marches the first few days. It seemed the momentum was truly on the peoples' side.

Today was another story, and it reminded me of other tragic conflicts between despotic regimes and people standing up for their rights.

I worry about the Iranians, though. There just aren't that many historical examples of totalitarian regimes backing down when faced with non-violent protest.

More below...

Toadvine

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Monday September 29, 2008 · 7:06 PM PDT

2008/09/29 · 19:06

That's what my 4 year old asked me this evening.

I replied, "I don't know, buddy".

I know it has nothing to do with politics, his question.

But after watching the stock market implode all day, it sure made me feel better.

I gave him a big hug. Everybody took a bath, brushed their teeth. I read my boys a bedtime story, they went to bed happy. "Love you, daddy".

Now I'm ready for tomorrow.

Sleep tight, Kossacks.

No Deal. GOP won't play

Toadvine

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Thursday September 25, 2008 · 2:14 PM PDT

2008/09/25 · 14:14

Short diary, but interesting to see this play out.

Nancy Pelosi is hoping for GOP votes to cover the Democrats politically as they pass a bill that will be hugely unpopular.

But the GOP rank and file are not going to play ball. This will probably set up an opportunity for McCain to position himself as the populist savior who fought for the little man against Wall Street, Obama and the east coast liberal establishment.

The article linked to below quotes several GOP congressmen who seem to be itching to either change the deal brokered today, or scuttle it.

Toadvine

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Thursday September 11, 2008 · 12:48 PM PDT

2008/09/11 · 12:48

It's a given that the American public gets next to no information about the war. Our media corporations aren't interested in covering it - bad for business, you know - and the politicians on both sides of the aisle who refuse to do anything to stop the war would rather it just slide into oblivion.

That sucks for the men and women still fighting. And it sucks for their families.

Reporters from other countries are still doing good work, however. Blow the fold is a link to a front page Guardian video that you should watch, and share with your friends and neighbors.

Toadvine

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Thursday July 03, 2008 · 6:52 PM PDT

2008/07/03 · 18:52

Obama's response to the protest on the FISA "compromise" is horrible.

He's gonna wind up voting for a bill that contains retroactive immunity, despite earlier vows to veto any such bill. What happened to filibuster?

He says the "exclusivity provision" makes clear the idea that FISA is the only method by which the President can spy on Americans - even though the old FISA law already says that.

He talks about overseeing the watchers - but there's no such provision for oversight. In the USA, such oversight is supposed to come from the Courts. Obama seems to think it'll come from the Inspector General's office, or the AG's office. He expects the Exec Branch will investigate itself.

He finishes up with a toothless "promise" (after breaking his earlier promises about FISA, why should we listen now?) to have his AG "review" the surveillance methods under use. Instead of promising to prosecute obviously illegal activity.

Poll

29 votes Show Results

Which Amendment in the Bill of Rights will Obama give up next?

1. First Amendment â€" Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition

2.Second Amendment â€" Right to keep and bear arms.

3.Third Amendment â€" Protection from quartering of troops.

5.Fifth Amendment â€" due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.

6. Sixth Amendment â€" Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel

7. Seventh Amendment â€" Civil trial by jury.

8. Eighth Amendment â€" Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.

9. Ninth Amendment â€" Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

10. Tenth Amendment â€" Powers of states and people.

29 votes Vote Now!

Which Amendment in the Bill of Rights will Obama give up next?

1. First Amendment â€" Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition

4 votes

2.Second Amendment â€" Right to keep and bear arms.

4 votes

3.Third Amendment â€" Protection from quartering of troops.

3 votes

5.Fifth Amendment â€" due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.

4 votes

6. Sixth Amendment â€" Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel

3 votes

7. Seventh Amendment â€" Civil trial by jury.

0 votes

8. Eighth Amendment â€" Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.

4 votes

9. Ninth Amendment â€" Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

5 votes

10. Tenth Amendment â€" Powers of states and people.

2 votes

Fight to save the Fourth Amendment

Toadvine

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Monday June 23, 2008 · 12:51 PM PDT

2008/06/23 · 12:51

I don't know if links to these sites have been posted before. If so, more exposure won't hurt.

Regarding bill H.R. 6304...

It's time to get on the phone and fax machine, to contact senators and tell them to oppose passage of the "compromise" bill - the bill which will guarantee immunity for telecom companies which engaged in illegal domestic spying, and which will vastly broaden the government's ability to spy on US citizens.

I just called the Obama campaign. A lady there told me, "We're getting a lot of calls on this issue and we're logging them all. Your voice is being heard".

The numbers and links are below. All I'm doing is broadcasting stuff others have put together. Hopefully, if many thousands of people complain about this, the bill will die.

Toadvine

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Saturday June 21, 2008 · 8:04 AM PDT

2008/06/21 · 08:04

...will you support them?

Because I am pretty certain that the GOP will go beserk about FISA once the election cycle is over.

It will be easy for them.

Immunity for huge telecommunications companies that spied on US citizens illegally? Establishment of an obscure court system that decides, in secret, who can be spied on and who can't? Those are very unpopular. All you have to do is educate the public on the issues and the public will rally to protect basic civil rights.

Toadvine

Community (This content is not subject to review by Daily Kos staff prior to publication.)

Wednesday March 26, 2008 · 7:23 PM PDT

2008/03/26 · 19:23

It's crazy, improbable - it'll never happen. But that doesn't seem to stop people from speculating about it. I've seen a few articles online quoting Democrats who muse out loud about the possibility of Al Gore emerging from the Denver convention as the nominee. I've heard people talking about the possibility at work.

My wife mentioned it today - and can't remember where she heard it.

Rumors spread quickly, and people love intrigue. Stories of insider deals make for juicy gossip.

But I wonder, what is the sense of the Daily Kos community on such an idea?

Not too many months ago, Gore routinely won online polls on this site. I wonder how he'd fare now? Now that many (most) of us have our hearts, minds and wallets firmly behind one of the 2 candidates.

It seems possible that the race will continue until the convention. Some are calling for the Democratic party "elders" to step in and ask Hillary to drop out. But what party elder is gonna outweigh the arguments of Bill Clinton?

I can't see Hillary dropping out.

So, what about it? If the convention became a madhouse, and Gore emerged as the nominee, what would you do? Who would get your vote?

Poll

249 votes Show Results

Who'd get your vote?

249 votes Vote Now!

Who'd get your vote?

Obama / someone other than Gore

117 votes

Clinton / someone other than Gore

3 votes

Gore / Obama

125 votes

Gore / Clinton

4 votes

The Democrats Want Unitary Executive Powers

Toadvine

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Monday March 03, 2008 · 11:00 AM PST

2008/03/03 · 11:00

The Democrats are dropping hints that they'll give the telecom firms retroactive immunity for illegal wiretapping.

So they'll likely cave in on this issue, as they have on so many others.

The Democrats have done nothing to force Bush's hand on extraordinary rendition, on holding prisoners without access to the courts, on politicizing the Attorney General's office, etc., etc.

After a while, I think you have to ask, why are they failing to oppose these measures?

I think the answer is because they want those powers themselves.

Digby's question. Terrorism, Freedom and the Cowardly Politicians.

Toadvine

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Tuesday August 07, 2007 · 2:46 PM PDT

2007/08/07 · 14:46

A sizable number of Congressional Democrats sided with the GOP and Bush last week, to broaden the government's ability to spy on us.

They want to increase their surveillance capability in order to prevent another terrorist attack.

(You can argue that that's all bullshit, that what they really want is the ability to spy on political opponents, like Nixon did - but for the sake of argument I'm gonna take their word. And the word of the Democrats who voted with them).

Toadvine

Community (This content is not subject to review by Daily Kos staff prior to publication.)

Saturday August 04, 2007 · 11:00 PM PDT

2007/08/04 · 23:00

The Bill of Rights is a short but powerful document.

You can read the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights and get a pretty good idea as to what the revolutionaries who founded our country wanted their government to do.

The GOP has always called itself the party that values the Constitution. That may have been true years ago, but it's no longer true. The GOP of the Bush era favors authoritarianism.

The saddest fact of all is that today's Democrats are helping Bush gut civil liberties.

I think things become more clear if you take a look at some of the amendments in the Bill and see what Bush has done. Pretty quickly you can see that Bush is attacking bedrock liberties.

More below.

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The Liberals Are Right

Non-violence in the face of totalitarian regimes?

Did God make his-self?

No Deal. GOP won't play

The War in Iraq - watch this video

Bill of Rights. What will Obama stand up for, if not this?

Fight to save the Fourth Amendment

In 2009, if the Republicans attack illegal wiretapping...

Gore?

The Democrats Want Unitary Executive Powers

Digby's question. Terrorism, Freedom and the Cowardly Politicians.

The Bill of Rights Under Bush