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View Diary: Disband RKBA Today (344 comments)

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  •  I agree, but better to stand up to bullies than (25+ / 0-)

    to turn them into martyrs.

    That has been the problem on Dkos, too few people stand up to them. They just let them HR and bully people. Too many Dkos commenters won't stand up to them. If all of the people who are speaking out today formed a Dkos group, instead of calling for their banning, it would be far more positive in my opinion.

    "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

    by ranger995 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:39:26 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  That's comment of the week (9+ / 0-)

      if you ask me.

      Too bad I can't rec it.  :)

      How long does it take for the NR to go away, by the way?  Anyone know?

      I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

      by coquiero on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:43:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Unfortunately, I know of someone who has been (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ranger995

        NR for 9 months.  No one seems to know what or if there are criteria for getting out of limbo.

        Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

        by Smoh on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:49:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hmmm...I wonder if you have to ask to (7+ / 0-)

          have it removed?

          I'll let it sit for awhile and maybe revisit it at a later date.

          It's not like it's such a big deal, honestly I regret the loss of right to rec much more the right to HR.

          I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

          by coquiero on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:52:10 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  If you let the dust settle briefly... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            twigg

            (unsure how long that is, maybe now is okay,) then ask the admins through the help page, including an apology for what they perceived as a ratings violation, they may choose to remove it.
                 If you got a kos-mail expressing it as a warning when it came down, it may come off on its own, but if it just "happened," it's intended to be a permanent thing. It can be removed if the admins decide they over-reacted, or if they decide you are sincere in your aknowledgement of/apology for your violation. NR status is something kos uses for people that the admins believe have willfully violated the standard they set for ratings. It happens to people who uprate a comment that leads to the commenter being banned, as well as to people who abuse hide-rates.
                IIRC, you were repeatedly hide-rating an individual with whom you were in an active exchange, who was being rather obnoxious. Your most likely course of reinstatement might be the explanation that you were so angry at his obnoxious behavior and your lack of support from others that you chose to hide-rate him yourself to encourage others to do so and, at the time, refused to accept the warnings from others that you were violating site rules by doing so. You might even choose to say that you had intended to go back & remove the hide-rates, but found you'd lost your rating privileges before you could do so. The fact that he got himself banned yesterday for continued out-of-control behavior might help your cause.

            -7.25, -6.26

            We are men of action; lies do not become us.

            by ER Doc on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:39:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I didn't really get a kos mail (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ER Doc

              I got a red banner explaining how I had violated the rules, and had to hit a button acknowledging that I read the message before I could comment again.

              I hope I get a response from Elfling, but if I don't I'll let it go for awhile and maybe send a follow up through the help page in a week or so.

              Thanks for the advice.

              I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

              by coquiero on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 09:47:59 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  I recced it for you coquiero (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ranger995, glorificus

        Consider my rec = 2x

    •  I have suggested over and over that this be (5+ / 0-)

      done and never get any response (except from RKBAers mocking me).

      Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

      by Smoh on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:47:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Now is the time to post a diary pushing people (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        North Madison, gooderservice

        to stand up to them. If we can't win the struggle for this site, we will never win it for real.

        "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

        by ranger995 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:50:07 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think they got the picture today. Pete Cortez (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gooderservice, twigg

          has left the group, after being taken to the woodshed offsite. I think.

          "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

          by glorificus on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:33:18 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  that's a shame. "taken to the woodshed" implies (0+ / 0-)

            that standing up for a Constitutionally guaranteed tenet deserves punishment.

            Which ones should we defend, if not all?

            LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

            by BlackSheep1 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:52:41 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Uh, no. "taken to the woodshed" here implies (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gooderservice, lazybum, skohayes

              behaving inappropriately as a Kossack or member of RKBA. NOTHING to do with the Constitution. Petey was a jerk, offended quite a few people, check the hiddens if you don't believe me.

              Unless you think no member of RKBA does anything that is not related to the Constitution, which to me is incomprehensible.

              "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

              by glorificus on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:03:32 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  quite a few people offended me today (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                glorificus, ancblu

                with what I really believe are knee-jerk responses to a tragedy.

                People are angry, hurt, frightened.

                LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                by BlackSheep1 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:25:23 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  Cortez spent most, if not all (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              twigg, Sandino

              of his time in RKBA diaries. He was disruptive and rude and often HR'ed.

              Explain. (1+ / 27-)
              Why not an armed secretary?  Or an armed principal?  Or even an armed kid?

              by Pete Cortez on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 10:55:28 AM CST

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              That classifies him as a troll in my mind.

              “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

              by skohayes on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 05:36:38 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  I will join your group, gladly. (5+ / 0-)

                        With gratitude,
                Hugs on this terribly hard day,
                              Heather

        Torture is ALWAYS wrong, no matter who is inflicting it on whom.

        by Chacounne on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:55:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  One problem (4+ / 0-)

      Is that the people who go up against RKBA often come across as emotional idiots.

      I say this as someone who sometimes agrees with RKBA and sometimes disagrees.

      •  I think that is partially because they have had (7+ / 0-)

        a lot of time to organize and develop their answers to most of the criticism. They also tend to be as harsh as they can be without going overboard so that they provoke commenters into making dumb comments. Many of us have done it.

        We have to be a sophisticated or even more sophisticated than they are.

        It isn't about agreeing or disagreeing. It is about moving the conversation forward and not getting caught in the traps.

        "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

        by ranger995 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:02:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  If you want to move the conversation forward (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          glorificus, JayFromPA, LilithGardener

          Throw in some new ideas and arguments that they won't have counter-arguments ready for.

          •  Even better (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            OMwordTHRUdaFOG

            As a nuts and bolts type of guy, how about ideas that don't violate the laws of physics and metallurgy!

            There are only so many times one can point out that hot metal doesn't keep it's shape before the umpteen dozenth 'suggestion' of microstamping inspires questions of bro-sis parentage on the part of the suggestion-giver.

            Also as a nuts and bolts type of guy, how about ideas that are fleshed out in terms of concrete steps that must be taken in order to achieve the goal! Reading yet another 'plan' in the form of
            1 - tell people idea
            2 - get a lot of support for idea
            3 - ?????
            4 - Profit!
            also inspires despair in me, as until 3a, 3b, 3c, etc are mapped out the 'plan' is just more magical thinking that cannot be put into place. I want a plan with everything thought through, everything else deserves scorn because it's nothing more substantial than vaporware.

            •  That plan worked for the NRA (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sandino

              Let me give you an example:

              1) Obama wants to take all your guns!
              2) In support, people run out and buy guns all over the country.
              3) Gun manufacturers make huge profits and donate to the NRA to lobby against laws restricting gun ownership.
              4) PROFIT!

              “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

              by skohayes on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 05:40:04 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  My observation is that that has been done, but (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tardis10

            then it gets personal and absurd and discussion stops cold.

            I am not at all sure that a discussion can actually be had. I have NEVER seen it, even on Twigg's relatively peaceful thread on the topic last week *(or was it early this week?).

            202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

            by cany on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 06:44:11 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  And turn the subject around (0+ / 0-)

            Ask for constructive suggestions that aren't a rehash of punishing gun-involved crimes more harshly.

        •  The answers come from the NRA (0+ / 0-)

          for the most part. I'm sure that is just a coincidence, but they are professionally prepared and focus-group tuned.

      •  as the person you are probably refering to... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ranger995

        ...I have to ask.  Why does this issue have to be discussed like we are all Vulcans here.  The reason people discuss this issue with emotion is because of the harm caused by guns and the fear that drives some to need them.

        We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

        by delver rootnose on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 05:04:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  And this is also true - and we don't ban (0+ / 0-)

        overly emotional comments, either, do we?

        One problem is that the people who go up against RKBA often come across as emotional idiots.
        I am pro gun rights and pro gun regulation, and am not a member of RKBA, but have had a few interesting discussions on the subject.

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