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View Diary: Daily Kos/PPP Poll: NRA and GOP grossly out-of-step with America ... including Republicans (235 comments)

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  •  Won't work for a number of reasons. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MPociask, Odysseus

    Competition shooters may shoot 1000 to 5000 rounds per week.  They may increase that to as many as 10,000 rounds in the weeks leading up to a national championship.

    Generally, competition shooters refer to themselves as 'used brass generators.

    There are perhaps 80,000 to 100,000 very active competitive rifle and pistol shooters.  There are many more trap, skeet and sporting clay shooters.

    Many competitors reload their own ammunition due to cost considerations.  Some, but not all, cast their own bullets.

    It would make sense to show a drivers license when purchasing ammunition and require the same for internet sales.

    •  I have no problems with this kind of shooting. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      belle1, gmats

      The kind of shooting I'm trying to address are the daily, senseless slaughters on the streets of Chicago/NY/Detroit/Philadelphia/Miami/LA and so on and so on and so on.

      Read the Sat. and Sun. morning papers from those cities - shootings, killings, rampages, etc. on a DAILY basis.

      Chicago, for example, is happy to keep annual murders below 500! (That's 20 Sandy Hooks for those that can't count.) And that's just in the City of Chicago. Ask about the rest of the cities in America.

      This ain't about your skeet shooting or deer hunting. This is about people-killing. Surely you can see the difference.

    •  How about this. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, BachFan, gmats

      I don't know much about about competition shooting, but I do know a lot about competitive sports.  How about buying and keeping ammo for competitive shooting only where you shoot it.  Kind of like a driving range where you get buckets of balls that you hit, same as a batting cage, etc.  I suppose there are those that practice elsewhere, but I'm not sure where and how and what laws govern that.  It's just meant as a suggestion and question of feasibility.  Clearly it would be an issue for those reloading and casting their own.

      The priest said, "Today's sermon is called 'Liars', but first I have a question. How many of you have read Chapter 66 in Matthew?" Nearly every hand went up. "You're just the group I need to speak to," the priest said. "There's no such chapter."

      by Back In Blue on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:22:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Are you sure of your numbers -or are you making (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      shit up?

      Taking the low end of your ranges, you are saying these guys use 80 million rounds per week. At the high end you are saying that they are using 500 million rounds per week.

      And as for casting their own bullets, maybe you can answer the following questions

      How long does it take to make 1000 bullets in your kitchen/ Does it leave you anytime to actually shoot them.

      How much powder/cordite or whatever would you need to make 5000 bullets a week, and would this not attract a little attention from the ATF?

      •  A weekend match, depending on shooting (0+ / 0-)

        discipline will run between 120 rounds to 200 rounds.  

        With a little practice before hand, that is easily 500 rounds a weekend.

        There are over 10,000 western 3-gun shooters every weekend...except in very bad weather.  So, just for this one discipline, that can be 5 million rounds per week.  

        A normal 38 special load with most powders would run aroun 3 grains (7000 grains to the pound).  So that will produce around 2000 and change cartridges.

        So, 2 to 3 pounds of powder and about 90 pounds of lead for bullets for 5000 38's with 125 gr bullets.

        ATF is interested in firearms or if you sell the ammunition you reload.  If you make it for yourself, no regulation.

        •  By the way, in almost 30 years of the western 3 (0+ / 0-)

          gun sport, there has never been a fatality.

        •  I just saw that: Make shit up. (0+ / 0-)

          Thanks.  Nice way to call someone a liar.

          I gave you a 'normal scenario' right above this.  But, the top shooters do practice what I mentioned at first.  And there are more people who want to be top shooters, so they practice too.

          It's unbelievable the amount of lead they can use in a weekend.

          In many cases, it's recycled every couple of years.

          •  Yeah well - numbers don't add up. (0+ / 0-)

            80 million bullets - low end estimate - per week equals around 4 billion per year, your high end estimate 500 million per week comes to around 25 billion a year.

            But according to Oxfam, world production is around 12 billion rounds per year.

            So with your low end case, your US sport shooters are consuming one third of the world's supply, at the other end they are using 200% of the world's supply.

            Doesn't leave much for the US army, Chinese army, Syrian rebels hunters, LEO's etc.

            •  Your math sucks asshat. (0+ / 0-)

              500 per week times 10,000 shooters equals 5 million.

              Say, half of the weekends, on average is 26 weeks, equals 130,000,000 cartridges per year.

              Add to that the serious competition practice and training end up with a very sizeable number.

              And, these guys don't BUY cartridges, as a rule.  They build their own.  They are reloaders.  That won't show up in any government statistic.

              That doesn't count, skeet shooters, trap shooters, sporting clays shooters, modern 3 gun shooters, long range precision shooters.

              •  Heh SFB - your math is as bad as yr comprehension (0+ / 0-)

                The comment I replied to this one was talking about 5000, that is thousands, rounds per week, and 80,000 shooters.

                Before you criticize read the post, and then don't try to piss on me by changing the data.

                I guess by the fact you are now downgrading the numbers to more realistic estimates, you agree that the original numbers were pulled out of someone's ass.

    •  Yes, and they don't use semi-automatic weapons (3+ / 0-)

      The issue isn't sports.  Trying to make it about sport shooting is derailing discussion of the very real problem of semi-automatic weapons and extended magazines.

      •  It isn't, but it is. (0+ / 0-)

        There are more and more "modern" 3-gun competitions.  They involve semi-automatic pistols, rifles and shotgun.

        It's one of the fastest growing disciplines.

        Competitors use more ammo than anyone else besides the military & police.  So, it's where you will get the most pushback if someone tries to tax or regulate them.

      •  They don't? (0+ / 0-)

        The hell they don't. Pretty much every competition gun I've seen is semi-automatic.

        ‎"Masculinity is not something given to you, but something you gain. And you gain it by winning small battles with honor." - Norman Mailer
        My Blog
        My wife's woodblock prints

        by maxomai on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 01:31:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, they don't. (0+ / 0-)

          Western shooters use two models based on an 1873 design for the most part.  The modern equivalent is the Ruger Vaquero.  They use reproduction rifles based on designs from 1873, 1892 and 1894.  Their shotguns are old double barrels or pump Winchesters based on the 1897 design.

          For more info, go to youtube and watch 'cowboy action shooting".  For the fastest men and women, look at 'cowboy action shooting world records".

          This is probably the largest shooting group out there almost every weekend.  Something like 50,000 members and 10,000 very active shooters.  Shotgun shooters are a MUCH larger group of shooters, but they only use shotguns of course (skeet, trap, etc.)

    •  Actually, I disagree (0+ / 0-)

      I think it would work just fine.

      Investigator: Hey, we noticed you bought 10,000 rounds of ammunition, and that raised a red flag. Can you tell us what you're doing with it?

      Ammo owner: Not a problem. I'm a competition shooter. Here's my competition AR-15. Here's my competition 1911. Also, here's the .30-06 I use for elk hunting, which I'm going to spend the next week zeroing.

      Investigator: Looks legit. Okay, thanks.

      Case closed.

      The point is to get a human being to at least look at the situation.

      ‎"Masculinity is not something given to you, but something you gain. And you gain it by winning small battles with honor." - Norman Mailer
      My Blog
      My wife's woodblock prints

      by maxomai on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 01:30:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yah. No problem. (0+ / 0-)

        If you don't restrict the sporting folks, they really don't care if you know what they use.  It's not a secret.

        Most likely, they'd invite you out to try out the sport with their gear.  Happens all the time.

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