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View Diary: Israel's excessive assault on Gaza endangers US National Security (511 comments)

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  •  What? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radiowalla
    So you know nothing about the constantly expanding settlements?
    I do. Why is land encroachment ethnic cleansing in your view?
    The apartheid wall that is forcing Palestinians from their homes? Do you know anything about the situation in the West Bank? Israel has been expanding for decades and displacing Palestinians in the process. That's ethnic cleansing.
    Again, I've actually been there. I've been on both sides of this wall. What you're claiming, that Israelis are and have been engaged in a campaign to ethnically cleanse Palestinians is objectively false. Not only is it false, it's a stain on the memory of Yitzhak Rabin who was killed by right-wing extremists for pursuing a path of peace.

    If Israelis were engaged in the kind of ethnic cleansing you allege, then why does Israel grant citizenship to Arabs? Why is there no campaign to eradicate Palestinian Jews who share ethnicity with Palestinian Arabs?

    You're just wrong. If you're genuinely interested in peace, you should talk about what Israel is actually doing wrong, rather than making inflammatory claims that exacerbate divisions. This isn't a fucking sporting match in which we should be rooting for Palestinians over Israelis or vice versa.

    •  I wish you would write a diary, fou, (1+ / 0-)
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      fou

      about the use and misuse of the term "ethnic cleansing" here.  There are many Kossacks who have no historical reference point and who have learned to throw around the buzzwords of the day without truly considering what they mean.  

      Of course, any diarist who ventures into the I-P quicksand may not live long enough to tell the tale.  But you have made some very pertinent points and I wish you would share them in a diary if you are so inclined.  

      It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

      by Radiowalla on Tue Jul 29, 2014 at 05:32:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  via wikipedia (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        stargaze, AoT, poco, CenPhx
        Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of creating a territory inhabited by people of a homogeneous or pure ethnicity, religion, culture, and history.
        Yeah, land encroachment isn't part of that! Pure ignorance.
        •  Speaking of ignorance ... (1+ / 0-)
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          Radiowalla
          Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of creating a territory inhabited by people of a homogeneous or pure ethnicity, religion, culture, and history.
          Do you believe Israel is only inhabited by Israeli Jewish settlers with the same religion and ethnicity? If the settlements were not a part of Israel and were being created by an autonomous group of settlers then perhaps this definition would apply, but in that case, Israel would not be responsible.

          Again, you cannot claim that Israel's intention is to ethnically cleanse when Israel grants citizenship to individuals of other ethnicities and religions.

          Pure ignorance.
          I'll say. You've certainly revealed yours.
          •  no I don't (4+ / 0-)
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            stargaze, AoT, poco, CenPhx

            but I believe Israel is a Jewish state and Arabs are in many ways second class citizens.

            The settlements themselves are overwhelmingly homogeneous, yes.

            I can think of many other groups in history engaged in ethnic cleansing of a certain group that are more tolerant of other groups, even though those groups might not be totally pure. You can't?

            Seriously man, until you explain why you take Israel's word over the rest of the world's, you don't really have a leg to stand on.

            •  This has nothing to do with taking (0+ / 0-)

              anybody's word.

              Seriously man, until you explain why you take Israel's word over the rest of the world's, you don't really have a leg to stand on.
              Israel doesn't just say it grants citizenship it actually does! This is an independently verifiable fact. If you stopped getting your information from blog threads and actually read a fucking book or got of a fucking plane, you would understand that the world does not conform to your limited view of it.

              Yes, in many ways Arabs are second class citizens in Israel. That was apparent during my stay there. But the Arab neighborhoods I stayed in wouldn't have been there if Israel was engaged in ethnic cleansing.

              Speaking of definitions:

              willful ignorance (uncountable)

              (idiomatic, law) A decision in bad faith to avoid becoming informed about something so as to avoid having to make undesirable decisions that such information might prompt.
              http://en.wiktionary.org/...

              •  sorry, that particular comment about (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                stargaze, fou, CenPhx

                "word" was directed at Radiowalla, and his assertion that Israel isn't occupying Gaza. Sorry for mixing you up.

                But still, your definition of "ethnic cleansing" is absurdly narrow. Consider the Trail of Tears. Ethnic cleansing carried out in an otherwise diverse and cosmopolitan society. There were even native citizens! And minority neighborhoods! throughout America. And yet, we still engaged in ethnic cleansing.

                You are backpedaling. First you say "land encroachment" (a euphemism for forced relocation) couldn't possibly be part of ethnic cleansing. When I point out it's an essential part of the definition, you say, "of course forced relocation can be part of ethnic cleansing, but only if the society prosecuting it is monolithic." Now I'm pointing out historical examples of ethnic cleansing where that wasn't the case. Or is it your position that the Trail of Tears doesn't qualify?

          •  Don't bother with this poster. (0+ / 0-)

            He is not interested in an exchange.  Only in dominating the discussion by name calling and insults.  I have just bid him adieu.  

            It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

            by Radiowalla on Tue Jul 29, 2014 at 06:07:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  The settlements are all Jewish (6+ / 0-)

            and always have been. And the people cleared to make room for settlements are always Palestinians. They are creating a territory cleared of Arabs for Jewish settlers. That's ethnic cleansing. The fact that there are Arabs somewhere else has nothing to do with it.

            No War but Class War

            by AoT on Wed Jul 30, 2014 at 05:47:04 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  it would help (0+ / 0-)

        if fou had the slightest understanding of the legal definitions and standards that apply, that's for sure.  She clearly does not.

        Although AoT doesn't seem to be aware of it,  in fact parts of the ruling coalition, including Deputy Speaker Feiglin, have been very clear about their intention to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank.  It is even in Our jewish Home's Platform. (it seems they always want to do the same thing to Lebanon as well)

    •  you guys are thoroughly revealing your ignorance (0+ / 0-)

      The definition of ethnic cleansing via wikipedia:

      Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of creating a territory inhabited by people of a homogeneous or pure ethnicity, religion, culture, and history.
      Yeah, "land encroachment" doesn't count!

      Please, at least check the dictionary before correcting someone about this. It's embarrassing.

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