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View Diary: As Others See Us (244 comments)

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  •  Before we get too smug here... (none)
    We in the UK will re-elect Blair with a massive majority next year (admittedly possibly on less than 40% of the vote).  And there is as much irrational and paranoid fear and hatred of Muslims in Europe as in the US.  Living in a well intergrated part of liberal, multi-cultural London I'm sometimes chilled by some of the Islamophobic rhetoric I hear.  We just don't like war because we've had rather more experience of it on our own territory.  Sometimes being old brings experience and wisdon.
    •  asdf (none)
      Yeah, but y'all export your hatred better than we do.  If we were you, the Amritsar Massacre would have been in downtown Selma.  We tend to shit where we sleep (metaphorically; though considering how many people think Bsh is God, I reserve the right to amend that) which is much more disgusting.
    •  Hate to say this but it's true. (none)
      Apart from all the bravado from LondonYank, if he meant what he said, the British wouldn't let their leader be Bush's pet poodle.  Whenever America says sit, the UK sits. I'd believe the rhetoric of how Europe is tired of America if it would only stand up for itself for once, instead of gladly allowing America to take the lead in everything globally.
      •  Note my European hat, not my British hat (none)
        Yes, Blair is a poodle - or Bush's Bitch as I prefer to think of him.  

        But as for the rest, Europe does stand up for itself by pursuing different policies than America.  It negotiates, it compromises, it tries to find win-win solutions which both sides can live with - however imperfect.

        The American "take the lead" approach nowdays always seems to involve indescriminate bombing of civilians and torture somewhere.  I'm glad the Europeans follow their own approach, and suspect that when the US is wallowing in the economic hard times and turmoil to come, the Europeans will be quietly making good progress as a result.

        I'm a pissed off patriot and I approve this message

        by LondonYank on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:32:22 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  European influence has all the fortitude of... (none)
          ...a big wet noodle.

          And don't take that as an insult, but as encouragement. I for one wish the EU would actually stop being a collection of 25 bickering ex-wives and actually concentrate on centralizing their military and economic capability.  In other words, become a superpower. Unfortunately, I saw your latest polls and even though 70% of euros want to be a superpower, only 30% want to if that means increasing military spending.

          If you want to put a check on this raging machine of brash unpredictability: USA, then you need to start realizing your own power.

          In 20 years, China's economy will have surpassed the US if current growth remains constant. They're going to be the next superpower if Europe doesn't step up.

          Everyone likes to point out that America has all this responsibility as a world power -- well time to take some responsibilities of your own if you want to have a say in things that matter to you.

          •  I agree very much (none)
            We in Europe play into the theocrats hands by not assuming our responsibility for where the world is heading. At the moment we point fingers but offer little help in balancing powers.
      •  Anti-Blair (none)
        We have opposed Blair in the UK. We've marched in our millions against the war in Iraq.

        At every opportunity we have given him a bloody nose in the ballot box. At this year's European elections the Labour Party received its lowest share of a national vote since 1918. In the local government elections the Labour Party trailed in third behind the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats. In four parliamentary by-elections there have been huge swings against the Government with two seats in London and Leicester won by the Liberal Democrats and two others in Birmingham and Hartlepool only just held

        The nature of three party politics may well save Blair next year, but he will do so with probably the lowest share of the vote won by any government in British political history.


    •  You know what? I think you might be wrong (none)
      I wonder if this hasn't put the final nail in Blair's political coffin. Think of all the Brits who are absolutely gutted today. In about a year's time, they have a chance to protest against the New World Order that is represented by Bush but that Blair has been instrumental in building. They couldn't vote out Bush; I really believe they'll vote out surrogate Bush. If Kerry had won, Blair would have had a chance to reclaim his reputation, but now he has no choice but to keep toadying to Bush and he's sunk.

      No idea what will come in his place, of course. But that's another story.

      • (none)
        I'm thinking of starting a blog on the UK scene in advance of next year's election.

        I'm a pissed off patriot and I approve this message

        by LondonYank on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:41:22 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  good so.... (none)
          The more I think about it, the more I think this finishes it for Blair. It's people's only way of protesting Bush.

          I like your idea of a blog, but lose the misogynistic name, please.

          •  I wish. (none)
            I'm sorry to sound blunt, but be serious.  People are going to not vote for Blair next year????  Look, the economy's pinky, Gordon Brown really runs domestic policy anyway, the LibDems have thrown away their best opportunity in a generation and the Tories are still a joke.  Had Menzies Campbell or Simon Hughes been leader of the LibDems it might be different.  Had the Portillo/Clarke socially libertarian wing taken over the Tory Party and came out against the war, they'd be pitting their anti-War record against Brown's economic record in the elction next year, with Blair very much a liability.

            But none of this happened, and Blair, mistrusted and slightly mad as he may be is still a sharp political operator and far from finished.  Look at how he's led Gordon Brown (who really runs the country while Tony swans off around the world looking for adulation) around by the nose over the past few months.

            •  of course.. (none)
              ...everything you say is correct. there's more than one side to this. But I do see people staying home in droves/voting for Mickey Mouse parties or the Lib Dems.  
              I really think people will want to hurt Bush and Blair. This is not going to go away.

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