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View Diary: Balkin: There will be no default, as the president already is using the 14th Amendment (362 comments)

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  •  This Half-Measure Contingency Will Not Prevent (14+ / 0-)

    US credit-rating downgrade, for one thing.  And the basic problem remains.

    The debt ceiling must be raised and the president is mistaken not to play hardball and insist on a clean bill that does just that.  He'd be standing firm on precedent.

    Instead, he's muddied clear waters and turned solid ground into a quagmire with his anti-progressive concessions by way of negotiating with politicians who amount to terrorists.

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    by Limelite on Fri Jul 29, 2011 at 08:42:13 AM PDT

    •  Agree Limelite!! I Just Don't Understand Why (4+ / 0-)

      Obama didn't hold firm for a clean debt ceiling bill from the beginning. He probably thought if he gave the Rethugs some spending cuts, they would "compromise" with him - I wish Obama would wake up and realize that you can't reason with unreasonable people.

      •  I think that extending the Bush Tax cuts (7+ / 0-)

        ... was a mistake.  They didn't get much for it, and people are gonna get hurt as bad - or worse - this way.  Which was obvious enough even at the time.

        The river always wins. (Mark Twain)

        by Land of Enchantment on Fri Jul 29, 2011 at 09:29:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Define "much". (0+ / 0-)

          Remember at the time that extended unemployment checks were at risk just before Christmas.  Giving millions of people a chance not to go hungry or lose their  homes over Christmas was a big deal.

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          by Yamaneko2 on Fri Jul 29, 2011 at 09:46:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Just making it through Christmas (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            badger, wsexson, WheninRome

            ... for some unemployed is worth all this?  Really?

            All the hurt is happening anyhow, just a little bit later on than that.  And with a lot of other stuff at risk, too.

            Yeah, some people would have been hurt.  More people are getting hurt this way.  And hurt worse.  Your argument is short-sighted.

            The river always wins. (Mark Twain)

            by Land of Enchantment on Fri Jul 29, 2011 at 10:04:49 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  You might not think they got much for it... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PsychoSavannah

          ...unless you were one of the folks who continued to draw Unemployment...

          Tax increases on the Not-So-Well-Off would have sucked, too...

          "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

          by leftykook on Fri Jul 29, 2011 at 09:58:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It was a bad deal (0+ / 0-)

            I don't think those taxes would have been the end of the world.  And the net result could have worked towards less cuts now.

            Or do you think those two things so important that they're worth sacrificing anything and everything else for?  It would appear that's what you're arguing for.  That's why I say it was short-sighted.

            The unemployment extension's running out anyhow, just a little later.  Would you like to, say, sell all the National Parks to prevent that?  Drink toxic, carcinogenic public water supplies?  Let the bridges fall and the schools close?  Give up unionization everywhere?

            Because the only thing in the entire universe that matters is a few more weeks of unemployment compensation?  Would you sacrifice even your own life and that of your children for that?  Because you can't think of anything else that matters?

            In the longer term, everyone - including that specific group of people affected by that one particular extension of unemployment (which was too late to help a lot of other people who are in even worse shape) - are going to be hurt more by this ongoing fiasco.   But it was worth sacrificing so much else of the future for a few more weeks of unemployment payments?

            The river always wins. (Mark Twain)

            by Land of Enchantment on Fri Jul 29, 2011 at 11:48:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Taxes for the lowest rate (0+ / 0-)

              would have gone up FIFTY PERCENT.  (From 10% to 15%)...   That would have made a GREAT bumper sticker, "Obama raises taxes on lowest income workers by 50%"

              Yeah it sucked.  All the choices available sucked.

              "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

              by leftykook on Fri Jul 29, 2011 at 11:51:37 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So then, it would appear (0+ / 0-)

                ... that you like what we've got going on now.  That it's the best possible thing.  Those tax rates were fine for everyone during the Clinton years.  Obama could have repeated that he put a bill in to reduce income taxes for the lower end of the scale, but Republicans killed it.  And he could have put it back in again.  And again.  It coulda passed.

                Furthermore, I don't think it woulda been Armageddon if everyone went back to Clinton-era tax rates.

                I could call you a moron, but that wouldn't be helpful, so I won't.  I do completely disagree with you.  Your view is short-sighted.  Very short-sighted.  Extremely myopic.

                The river always wins. (Mark Twain)

                by Land of Enchantment on Fri Jul 29, 2011 at 12:12:52 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  What a dumb-ass thing to say (0+ / 0-)

                  All the available choices were abominable.  Simply allowing the country to default was NOT AN OPTION.

                  Equating enduring a choice the President made with liking it is stupid, insulting and faulty logic.

                  I won't be so restrained.  You just might be a MORON! Maybe not.  But probably.

                  "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

                  by leftykook on Mon Aug 08, 2011 at 05:39:39 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  I am one of the folks drawing extended UI. (0+ / 0-)

            I think that he didn't get much for it.

            •  You speak for everyone drawing extended UI? (0+ / 0-)

              Didn't think so.
              And that wasn't the only thing that was "gotten".
              There was ratification of the START treaty, repeal of DADT, and some other things as well.

              Anyway, what is the point of this particular subthread (other than for the usual suspects to engage in yet another Obama-bashing circle-jerk; do you guys' arms ever tire)?

      •  It's going to be hard to put that genie back in (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        terabthia2, crystalboy

        the bottle now.  Never again will raising the debt ceiling be accomplished with a clean bill.  Very unfortunate.

        "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan - 1980

        by livjack on Fri Jul 29, 2011 at 10:05:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  No, he should proposed ending Bush tax cuts (0+ / 0-)

      He should have proposed ending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy and oil/gas/coal subsidies and cuts to defense spending.  Of course the GOP would never accept this but we could have negotiated down to a clean bill.  That's how it is supposed to work, ask for more than you really expect to get.

      Obama though, he starts at what he wants and then starts to make concessions from their.  The fact that Reid and Pelosi were offering 2.7 trillion in cuts w/o increasing revenue shows how far we slid to the right in these talks.  The fact that this wasn't acceptable shows just how insane the GOP has become.

      "It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said." "The War Prayer" by Mark Twain

      by Quanta on Fri Jul 29, 2011 at 10:56:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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