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  •  Excellent! nt (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Angie in WA State, mdmslle, tb mare

    May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

    by msmacgyver on Sun Jul 31, 2011 at 05:37:39 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Isn't it time to start fighting back against the (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ontario, msmacgyver, mdmslle, tb mare, jm214

      shite that the Conservative Right spews as gospel?

      Why not start with the one idea which is at the heart of how the Right managed to move the conversation to the point where a Democratic President is willing to bring up cutting Social Security & Medicare in the worst economy in 80 years?

      Imagine just this as an Ad:

      Taxes - they pay for Civilization

      ... as a voice over at the beginning, and fade into a banner that remains onscreen while under it, images of all the things that taxes pay for scroll by:
      Bridges with commuters during rush hour
      Public schools (K to College)
      Water and Sewer systems (water towers & sewer treatment plants)
      The Armed Forces

      and a bazillion other things that Taxes pay for...


      I like paying taxes... with them, I buy Civilization

      by Angie in WA State on Sun Jul 31, 2011 at 05:52:06 AM PDT

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      •  Taxes Pay For Civilization (0+ / 0-)

        Yes, it is time.

        Unfortunately, the RW base believes that their taxes pay for...welfare and for tax funded services which either they don't use, i.e., teachers, or say they don't want, i.e., EPA.  

        Grover Norquist: Every time you cut programs, you take away a person who has a vested interest in high taxes and you put him on the tax rolls and make him a taxpayer. A farmer on subsidies is part welfare bum, whereas a free-market farmer is a small businessman with a gun.

        Talk to any RWer and you will hear some variation on this with emphasis on...welfare.  For those GOPers who need and use government assistance, it is about self-loathing and for those who have never needed tax funded assistance, it is about just plain loathing.

        Being a republican is about tribalism and the class system and is a lot like the high school clique system. The kids who want to be part of the "in-crowd" will often diss their own circumstances or lie about them and will profess hatred for the kids in similar circumstances.  These kids will do favors (read "vote) for the in-crowd bullies just to be accepted.

        On a personal level, both Clinton and Obama did not come from the "I've-Got-Mine" class and had to work for their rewards.  That's the irony and both Presidents had to learn to go-along-to-get-along early in their lives.  Both Presidents moved quickly to the center and were willing to govern more like a republican than a democrat.


        May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

        by msmacgyver on Sun Jul 31, 2011 at 06:55:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly my point on why we need a new meme (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mark Sumner, msmacgyver

          for the national Party to use to help start turning the Overton window Leftward.

          Because the other message is the only one that has been getting out there since the era of Richard Nixon, for pete's sake.

          "Taxes are evil. Tax kill jobs. Taxes are bad for everyone."

          The only way to get the Electorate to move it's 'group mind' on this issue to get a new message which obviates the Republican mantra.

          I just happen to think that this might be something which can work.

          It's short, easy to remember and most importantly, true, in ways that are easy to address via a TV commercial. My proposal above, for instance.

          It's not enough, anymore, to simply diagnose the problems that we have, as a Party and a Nation - we need to start finding and working on ways to create movement on the big issues of the day.

          Otherwise, in the end, the Conservative Republicans will be the big winner who 'takes all' - and the meager scraps which are all that are left of the Democratic Party will go the way of the Whigs... riding off into obscurity on the backs of a chastened group of wannabe politicians.

          I like paying taxes... with them, I buy Civilization

          by Angie in WA State on Sun Jul 31, 2011 at 07:36:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  When you focus closely on the GOPer (2+ / 0-)

            memes, it's obvious that they have no progressive goals and no plan for the future of the country.

            NOMORETAXES isn't a plan, it's the goal of a few at the top who are the only beneficiaries.

            Reagan tasked Grover Norquist to start Americans for Tax Reform in 1985 and create The Pledge which he did in 1986.  Most GOPer candidates sign this pledge before they are elected and are locked into it for as long as they are in office.

            The GOPer base assumes that NOMORETAXES refers to them and they are enabled in this thinking when GOPer politicians continue to point to "entitlements" as the villain.  The word "entitlement" is the proper economic term, despite the GOP's usage.  It is a problem when the word is used (properly) as a general term to include BOTH Social Security and Food Stamps and that usage by Dems further confuses the issue.

            People think personal and local so when their property taxes rise, republican voters blame government spending on such things as public schools and don't usually think cops, firemen or public libraries.

            What the republican base refuses to accept is that their taxes pay for all the things you list as well as the wars in which we are engaged.  The wordsmithery of Frank Luntz has created a mental block for these people who believe that welfare means all entitlements and spending on wars is patriotic.

            The GOP has had decades to sell their incomprehensible and faulty message and the Dems have not taken the time or the energy to do the kinds of things which you suggest. Kids who grew up during the Reagan years and lived in a republican household are now old enough to vote and they vote what they've been told to believe.

            May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

            by msmacgyver on Sun Jul 31, 2011 at 08:30:02 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The Party and other organizations, like (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mark Sumner, msmacgyver

              use funds to develop and produce political advertising.

              It's just that what they produce is mostly centrist-DLC-style messaging, which is all just retread messaging from the past twenty years or so. Since Clinton's era, certainly.

              "we're not as bad as the Republicans!"
              "We can Change what's wrong with Washington!"

              It's all down-side messaging, even when they try to put an upward spin on things (ie, Obama's 'Hope & Change' motto), what it ends up being is mostly back-handed compliments. For example, what is the most memorable mention of the Obama "Hope & Change" campaign? Is it the new President-elect in Chicago on election eve, taking the podium to a massive crowd spouting signs full of "Hope" and "Change" and booming across Grant Park the refrain of "O-bama, O-bama, O-bama"?

              No. It's Sarah Palin, asking in that smarmy tone she does so well, ""How's that hopey-changey stuff workin' out for ya?"

              What we need, is a Democratic version of Frank Luntz - the problem with that? Our side tends to avoid the vampire-like elements of the PR business. You know, Democrats always want to be the knights in shining armor. They never want to be the executioner in a mask lopping off the head of the treasonous rebel. Even if those knights are usually dead on the morning after battle, 'cause their shiny armor was shiny, but weak - while the executioner lives to die of old age, after a lifetime of steady work.

              So perhaps, the next meme that can catch the imagination of the Electorate needs to come from down here, in the weeds of the Grassroots, where sticking with the bare bones truth is a fact of life for most of us, and not some choice we make when deciding how to approach our next challenge.

              I like paying taxes... with them, I buy Civilization

              by Angie in WA State on Sun Jul 31, 2011 at 08:55:50 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You are so right about Dem messaging (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Angie in WA State

                It was enough to vote against Bush in '08, but times have changed and Obama has faced the kinds of negative PR that has not been seen in a generation.

                I'm 60ish and have seen a lot of presidential campaigns and heard a lot of negative rhetoric before, during and after Dems have been elected but never have I seen such horrendous attacks as those on President Obama and on the Dems.

                Of course, since Fox launched in 1996, the GOPer noise machine has manipulated and dominated what "news" that does get out there and the MSM is compliant and enables the Right as SOP.

                Your ideas are wonderful and you are a very powerful writer.  The Dems do need a new voice to change the message and as much as I despise the group-think-speak of Luntz and all the GOPer messengers, I do believe that voting Dems need slogans and bumper sticker buzz words which actually mean something.

                Hope? Change? Not so much, actually.

                May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

                by msmacgyver on Sun Jul 31, 2011 at 01:40:56 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  More from a recently posted Diary: (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Angie in WA State

                Why Voters Tune Out Democrats


                May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

                by msmacgyver on Sun Jul 31, 2011 at 01:47:50 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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