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View Diary: “Why Voters Tune Out Democrats,” by Pollster Stanley Greenberg in Sunday’s NYT (213 comments)

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  •  yes and yes (14+ / 0-)

    It is the zeitgeist and it is the truth. In reading the column this a.m., all I could think was "Well, yeah. Duh. Of course."

    Then I thought, "Whew! Good thing this sort of thing didn't appear on DailyKos, because handful of people would have HR'd the whole thing, and then whined in the thread about how THIS IS A DEMOCRATIC BLOG READ THE FAQS IT'S NOT AMERICA THIS IS KOS'S BEDROOM DON'T MENTION THIRD PARTIES WHADDYA LOVE NADER YOU ASSHAT.

    And then somebody would have equated Social Security with a pony, and it would be awesome.

    There are a lot of very, very dumb people out there (not helped by the gutting and theologizing of the public education system over the past decades, it should be pointed out). But the fact is also that there are a lot of people who simply don't see any possible way out of the totally failed democracy we find ourselves inhabiting.


    •  what you missed is, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      auapplemac, chrismorgan

      the Great Orange Satan is part of the third party, expressed not as a completely new political organization which is almost certainly doomed by first past the post voting, but as a tendency within one of the two parties.  We are the progressive wing of the Democratic party, and our goal is to elect more and better Democrats.

      Global warming is the inconvenient truth, nuclear power is the inconvenient alternative.

      by eigenlambda on Sun Jul 31, 2011 at 12:30:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm inclined to think I didn't "miss" it (9+ / 0-)

        But rather that I reject that interpretation. Don't get me wrong: I like it here. I find that reasonable discussions frequently occur, and given a lack of alternatives, I would indeed prefer better Democrats to worse Republicans.

        The problem as many of us see it, however, is that by continuing a party commitment we perpetuate a self-fulfilling prophecy that proclaims genuine, fundamental, systemic reform to be utopian, misguided, impossible, etc.

        It would be very foolish to tell a person with cancer that there's no point in bandaging a gash on their arm because, you know, they have cancer. But it would be very foolish to convince ourselves (or that person) that bandaging surface cuts is the same as treating the cancer.

        •  So what do you want? (0+ / 0-)

          A Constitutional amendment to allow the President to call for Congressional elections whenever he wants to?

          With such a power, the "bully pulpit" is turned into a serious political threat.  This debt ceiling crisis, for example, would have been over weeks ago.

          Global warming is the inconvenient truth, nuclear power is the inconvenient alternative.

          by eigenlambda on Sun Jul 31, 2011 at 12:46:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  again, cuts and cancer (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            grollen, Seamus D

            More swiftly resolving the debt-ceiling crisis isn't going to come close to fixing what's wrong with this system, any more than giving sweatshop workers a nickel-an-hour raise is going to change that system (which doesn't mean one wouldn't prefer a nickel raise to a dime cut).

            In any case, what I "want" isn't likely to happen in this country for many, many generations, if ever: there was hope for it at a certain point in the early twentieth century, but I'm pretty sure we're well beyond fucked at this point. Now the task is to try to minimize the pain of the most vulnerable while the ship sinks, with hopes that justice someday, somewhere comes to those what sank it.

          •  there is no bully pulpit (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
            I am a volunteer for Bob Massie for MA-Sen

            by TrueBlueMajority on Sun Jul 31, 2011 at 01:58:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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