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View Diary: Maybe there is Nothing wrong with this Site? (110 comments)

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  •  No (9+ / 0-)

    i did not call that comment the "most abhorrent"

    This comes a bit closer and of course there is plenty more uprated

    Please do not misrepresent what i actually said

    What really doesn't help and this is the point -- is the endless arguing when poc or women or lgbt posters object to commentary as sexism racist or heterosexist and it is uprated and enabled nonentheless

    this is a real issue here -- a lot is not hidden but rather uplifted

    So let's stop pretending that it is just a "bad day" or a "pie fight" or whatever and LISTEN

    More empathy re attending to the "isms" would go along way

    •  Agreed (12+ / 0-)

      I can agree with that.  I still don't think you needed to drag all that into here to make the comment you just did.

      It's as if you wanted to shame me or point a finger to just say what you did and that doesn't help, it just makes people defensive.

      There is no perfect person.

      And I said, repeatedly, that TiMT had every right to be as offended as he wanted to be, and to take the comment as he wanted to. I would never tell someone they shouldn't be offended by what someone says to them.

      It is different than saying I don't think the INTENT was to be racist, even if the perception was.

      I told TiMT that a couple of times that he had every right to want an apology and I don't know how many fucking times I have to write that.  But everyone wanted to focus on one thing.  That's the other issue, people like to stay on the one point they don't agree on rather than try to say, we can agree on this POINT.

      I am trying very hard to do this and yet it is blown off.

      I can only do so much and have the one little thing I may not have agreed on pushed back in my face, not once, but twice when I then commented in another diary that had nothing to do with teacherken's comment.  (and did you check, I didn't UPRATE his comment)

      So how long are you going to drag this out everytime I write something or comment?  Is there a statute of limitation ?

      Because at some point it is harassment and it just basically keeps people from wanting to comment at all because God forbid, they might have disagreed with you ONCE about a race issue.

      It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach. Franklin D. Roosevelt

      by Ellinorianne on Tue Aug 02, 2011 at 11:07:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Harassment??? (6+ / 0-)

        Bringing context to a discussion is harassment?  

        I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

        by princss6 on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 04:34:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I said (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Uberbah, poligirl, PhilJD

          at SOME POINT it is.  First it was brought up in a diary about sexism, and then in this diary.

          How many times is it going to be brought up again?

          It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach. Franklin D. Roosevelt

          by Ellinorianne on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 08:21:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Stop (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            conlakappa, princss6, ThisIsMyTime

            with the hyperbole and victimology

            This is the first time i brought this up -- to dispute the happy fantasy presented in your very own diary and the initial exchange is barely one week old

            This is hardly dredging ancient history

            Everybody needs to own their words and uprates here -- this why ther is a search function and comments cannot be edited/erased

            Hope you rethink this  -- learn something and Move On

            That is my preference

            •  And you are refusing (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              poligirl, PhilJD

              to actually comment to the fact that I didn't uprate teacherken's comment!

              I own my words, I wouldn't have responded.

              But owning your words doesn't mean dragging them around into other diaries and other discussions.

              You are refusing to see the point, even if it is a day old.

              And you are refusing to see the parts where I agreed with you but are sticking on the ONE part where I didn't not agree with you.

              SO be it, but when two people don't want to compromise on the substance of a discussion, then there is NO WHERE TO GO.

              And I am not asking you to compromise on what you believe to be racist or not racist, but to actually Move on, give me the benefit of the doubt.

              This was not meant to be some happy fantasy and you took this and made it personal, which was the whole point as well.

              You could have disputed me without making it SO PERSONAL.

              Yet, you refuse, completely to budge an inch.  I am not saying this is a perfect site, that all really crappy things get hidden and you could have easily proven that point with out BRINGING my one thing into it.

              Do you not see you could have proven your point without making it about ME.  But you had to make it a personal issue rather than the larger picture, which what it should be about, the inherent racism that is excused, which is inexcusable!

              So in making so many things personal, you hurt your own arguments!

              It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach. Franklin D. Roosevelt

              by Ellinorianne on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 09:08:31 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  typical victomhood bullshit we see every day. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            soothsayer99, princss6

            That is some tired ass stuff you are trying to pull. Whateva!

            ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

            by ThisIsMyTime on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 10:14:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thanks (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              poligirl

              Your comment helps so much.  I am sincerely trying here, I want so much to work things out here and yet you just spit back in my face.

              I read your diaries and want to agree.  I rec'd your diary today because I thought it was great!

              And yet here you are saying I'm playing a victim because I don't agree with the tactics of disagreement with my diary but the point is fair.

              Why does it have to be personal?

              It's not about playing a victim, it's about leaving out the personal attacks ON BOTH SIDES and trying to debate the substance of what I presented here.

              It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach. Franklin D. Roosevelt

              by Ellinorianne on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 01:35:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I think what you seem to forget is the fact that (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                princss6

                what some of us are handed in this blog is very personal while you try to portray everything as just a disagreement and feeding into the belittling of issue most of us see in this community to be a problem. There is a lot of things that are wrong in this blog and one of it is people like you who give folks excuses for saying what is offensive be it consciously or unconsciously. You don't seem to want to understand the core problem as stated by sooth because you are set in your ways. I don't think you are a bad person but I think you let ignorance on certain matter consume you.

                ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

                by ThisIsMyTime on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 09:08:32 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  And I am not saying (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  poligirl

                  there are not issues, I am saying they are dealt with in exactly the way they should be, they are hidden, called out etc.

                  And when Sooth pointed out examples of times they weren't, I felt that was valid, but she didn't have to drag into it comments that I had made, the argument could have been without it, that's what I meant with making it personal.

                  I have no idea what it is to walk in your shoes.  Not one iota.  I will never know and will never claim to know.

                  I left a group in a very painful way when people said that Michelle Obama had  things handed to her.  Who in the hell in their right mind would say that any African American woman has anything "handed" to them?  

                  When I hear about Barack Obama being dealt the most racist things, I wonder, what about Michelle?  I feel she has been made an even easier target and been given less defense.  

                  I can and never will say that I can know what it means to black, brown or any color in this country, nor would I pretend to know.  There is no knowing, there is only living in that reality.

                  My point was that as a website, it works as it should and that there will always be people who behave as people are doing so here.  And that calling them out, hiding them and educating, etc. is what people can do.    But some of the things that I've seen,  the way it's done, I just don't agree with the method.  I don't think a website can be "racist" (Well, I take that back,  KKK's website is most certainly racist".

                  But I think that writers here take it seriously and I believe that it's okay to chose your battles, to also want to give people the benefit of the doubt (and no, I am not talking about the most obvious and egregious offenses).

                  And the irony?  I really believe that this is what Obama would want, the pragmatic approach.  I think this is why I was drawn to him, I tend to not be confrontational, I want to smooth things over with people, there is something about him that I very much have in common when it comes to personalities.  I get that about him.

                  So that is why I reply, and why I try to explain myself and why I don't just say the same thing over and over again and why I go out of my way not to call people names.

                  Because to me it adds nothing to the discussion and it doesn't do anything to build bridges nor win the ultimate battles we have to win.

                  Why it matters to me, I don't know at times.  I really want that consensus, that I believe people, who even may disagree so vehemently can find a common ground.

                  And that's what I am trying to say here, we can coexist and at times, when there are those who seek attention, who are so vile that demand action, that we take it but we also have to try to give some kindness at times, people are human, fragile and make mistakes.  It is not easy.

                  So as I ramble on, I just hope I make sense.  I am not here to make enemies, friends, or anything, but to learn from people, to try to write and better myself and so I try really hard to understand.  Even when it may be the hardest thing for me to do and that means understanding people who I don't agree with.

                  It even means talking to and getting along with people who don't believe my gay friends should marry, why?  Because I believe they can change their minds, I pray they do.  I believe people can grow, learn and change and I believe that it happens by interacting rather than shutting them out.

                  It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach. Franklin D. Roosevelt

                  by Ellinorianne on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 09:27:37 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  TIMT has his own history of making (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      khereva, Ellinorianne, priceman

      comments that have been correctly HR'd into oblivion.

      He is certainly not a model for civil discourse on this site.

      If you want examples it would take me a few seconds to dig them up.

      This is a crisis I knew had to come, Destroying the balance I'd kept. Doubting, unsettling and turning around, Wondering what will come next.
      --Ian Curtis

      by jethrock on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 01:28:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You are obsessed with me. I understand. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        soothsayer99

        People only have to see your activities in the last two days in my diaries to understand that you are the scum of the earth TROLL. My comment from yesterday in my diary still stand.

        ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

        by ThisIsMyTime on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 10:09:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Don't flatter yourself. (0+ / 0-)

          Your diaries are not the only ones I comment in.

          But it's funny... you are the one that keeps following me into other people's diaries.

          Who's obsessed with who?

          I'm not the one who consistently writes diaries bashing other Kossacks either.

          Check yourself.

          This is a crisis I knew had to come, Destroying the balance I'd kept. Doubting, unsettling and turning around, Wondering what will come next.
          --Ian Curtis

          by jethrock on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 01:15:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  p.s. Do you believe cuts in domestic spending (0+ / 0-)

          will be good for the economy?

          This is a crisis I knew had to come, Destroying the balance I'd kept. Doubting, unsettling and turning around, Wondering what will come next.
          --Ian Curtis

          by jethrock on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 01:17:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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