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View Diary: Damn It. BooMan Rules. Know Your Enemies Indeed. (ACTION Diary) (331 comments)

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  •  what's with the selective criticism? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sunbro, Imhotepsings, princss6

    I've read plenty of diaries critical of Obama that does to those not agreeing with them exactly what you are criticizing here.

    But we want to get to the same place. We just disagree on the how. --mmacdDE

    by glynis on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 10:02:26 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I suspect those diaries aren't converting (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ozsea1

      anybody, either.  I'm not an apologist for those, but it doesn't make ones like this any more effective at persuading the unpersuaded.

      Again, maybe that's not the goal.

      •  the diary didn't do that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Imhotepsings

        there are going to be comments like that crop up because of the bitterness that has developed.  Best thing to do is ignore and not generalize it beyond the comments.

        But we want to get to the same place. We just disagree on the how. --mmacdDE

        by glynis on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 10:16:05 AM PDT

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        •  Is that the smell of false equivalency? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          drnononono

          You guys simply do not miss a trick from the republican playbook, do you? "Don't pay any attention when you see us acting like jerks, you can't generalize from the majority of childish comments you see. But hey! Did you see the way that jerk was insulting us? The fact that that one guy was arguably a little mean just goes to show that all Obama critics are vicious animals." Yeah, not buying it.

          •  what guys? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sunbro, Imhotepsings, Lying eyes

            I speak for myself.  And I didn't use any name calling either.  That seems to be a staple of yours.  I did exactly what I said.  I ignored those comments.  Didn't recc'd them.  I generally ignore them in the other diaries too unless they are directed specifically to me.  Then I might push back, might not.  I might use the same terms directed at me and aim them right back with my reply or might not.  

            And I'll kindly ask you not to put your words in my mouth because there is no honest way to imply I said anything about Obama critics being "vicious animals".

            But we want to get to the same place. We just disagree on the how. --mmacdDE

            by glynis on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 10:37:17 AM PDT

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            •  The guys who support Obama (0+ / 0-)

              I'm new here, so maybe I'm not seeing everything yet. But it sure seems like one side in the debate is a little more vehement and, dare I say it, personal in their communications. And it doesn't help, it drives people away. What helps are diaries like the ones TIMT puts out that outline all the good things Obama has done. I will never jump into one of those saying, "No way, Obama sucks!"

              Now, some of us are already taking those things into account and still do not feel that Obama has done right by us, but I'm sure there are just as many who read those diaries and go, "Hmm, yeah, I'd forgotten about that. Maybe he isn't such a bad guy."

              But all this crap accusing anyone who criticizes Obama of being a republican operative, or a racist or whatnot? Yeah, that is doing the opposite of what you think it is doing.

              I think that people who really put in a lot of effort supporting Obama will have a hard time being neutral about him. They are either going to keep loving him even more, or switch to hating him completely. Me, I never liked the guy. Too hawkish, too pro corporation, too Austrian economics school. I voted for him, and I will vote for him again, but my initial impression of him is really no different than it is now. I am not surprised by any of his actions, what I see is pretty much what I expected to see. I feel the same way about Obama as I did about Clinton. He is not a progressive, he governs like a center-right politician.

              •  I'm not new here (0+ / 0-)
                But it sure seems like one side in the debate is a little more vehement and, dare I say it, personal in their communications.

                I read and comment in both sides and both sides have some of this.  And there are people that will jump into diaries supportive just to say "Obama sux" just as there are people who jump into the diaries critical to say "progressives sux".

                I have been called a "republican operative" and I doubt you'd say I'm critical of Obama. The name calling on both sides has gotten out of hand.  So too has the HR abuse.  And I'm sorry to say I have seen the racist garbage some spew and they have been defended so there is a sensitivity about it.  I also don't think it's helpful to minimize that sensitivity by saying the person raising it is racist.  That's what the right has done to immunize themselves from their racist commentary.  

                There are operatives that have been outed and banned from here. One just recently.  So, it isn't surprising that sometimes based on a commenters history of comments that people begin to wonder.  But you're right, it can get out of hand.

                But we want to get to the same place. We just disagree on the how. --mmacdDE

                by glynis on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 12:57:41 PM PDT

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                •  COINTELPRO (0+ / 0-)

                  Look up the tactics they used to destroy the left in the sixties. One tactic was to get the members of targeted groups to start thinking everyone was an infiltrator. Nothing drives people away faster than that kind of toxic environment. There really were infiltrators, and they would do things like sleep around to get everyone jealous and fighting about sex. But sometimes they would just be very strident and aggressive in defending the groups ideals. Against everyone. Everyone else was an infiltrator, not pure enough, a bad guy seeking to bring the group down. And it was really the guys doing the warning who were there to bring the group down.

                  Out of hand? It's out of the goddamn stratosphere. This place is going to implode unless some people find some better ways of dealing with their own emotions.

                  And the best way to do that is to build community. Make this the god damn SAFE SPACE it should be. You know what? We can't trust politicians. Not even our own. But maybe we can learn to trust each other. And if we do that, if we build real community, then the energy we unleash in the individuals that make up that community will be unstoppable.

                  We need to stop looking to others to get us what we want, and instead, empower each other to do so.

                •  A difference is that most of the criticism (0+ / 0-)

                  of Obama--even that involving name-calling and comparisons to Republicans and "getting personal"--involve criticism of Obama, a public figure and elected official.  The name-calling criticism directed at progressives, leftists, and critics of the President is often personally directed toward the individual diarists and commenters.

                  If I criticize or even insult the President, I'm not, by that act alone, insulting or criticizing you.  It is this mistaken transference that causes much of the angst and bitterness among the support-Obama group.

                  •  I don't take it personally (0+ / 0-)

                    when Obama is criticized when I object to the name calling that goes with it.  And from the comments I read neither do they.  What we are objecting to is the lack of basic common decency that all people, public figures or not, deserve.

                    One can make their criticisms of the president and others known without some of the vile language that accompanies it that is directed at the persons.

                    And please do not pretend that personal name calling criticism isn't directed at the support-obama group.

                    But we want to get to the same place. We just disagree on the how. --mmacdDE

                    by glynis on Wed Aug 03, 2011 at 04:27:01 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

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