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View Diary: How Some Democrats Enabled Failure and Shoved it Down Our Throat (89 comments)

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  •  Yeah, that 90-3 vote on Guantonamo was sure (0+ / 0-)

    a resounding success. And all those health care votes where they voted in unison? And what about those appointments for relatively minor positions? Sorry, I'm not buying he could've gotten a controversial choice, especially on the economy, thru this Senate. Yes, he doesn't fight the way we want. But I refuse to blame him solely for the debacles we have today. And that seems to be the goal of a surprisingly large number of people on this blog. I want to get rid of Republicans far more than I want to complain about Obama.

    Modern Conservatism isn't simply about them owning as much as possible; it's also about breaking anything they can't own.

    by ontheleftcoast on Thu Aug 04, 2011 at 09:39:37 AM PDT

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    •  Did you read the diary? (0+ / 0-)

      he doesn't even try. He could have used reconciliation and recess appointments. He did neither. he emboldened Conservadems and Republicani from small states like he plans to with this Super Senate.

      I blame all Democrats, not just him, but again, these excuses don't bode well for reality. History disproves this. Recent history.

      Pro Life??? Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers!- George Carlin

      by priceman on Thu Aug 04, 2011 at 09:52:55 AM PDT

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      •  yes, I read the diary (0+ / 0-)

        And the recent history I assume you're refering to is Clinton? Remember how that ended? With an impeachment. Yeah, that really helped our country. And the Republican's punishment for dragging us as a nation thru that debacle? The repeal of financial oversight and the election of George Bush. History is a harsh teacher but we can't selectively choose to learn its lessons.

        Modern Conservatism isn't simply about them owning as much as possible; it's also about breaking anything they can't own.

        by ontheleftcoast on Thu Aug 04, 2011 at 10:08:03 AM PDT

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        •  Then you would have to acknowledge error (0+ / 0-)

          Lieberman's chair could have been taken away it wasn't.

          I don't know where you are going with impeachment, but you can't talk about finial crisis without mentioning Obama hired Larry Summers. Nobody stopped him.

          Clinton's impeachment had nothing to do with him being a neoliberal and finishing what Reagan started with Republicans.

          Obama cause this self induced debt ceiling crisis through his BS decisions in December 2008.

          Pro Life??? Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers!- George Carlin

          by priceman on Thu Aug 04, 2011 at 10:17:57 AM PDT

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          •  Darryl Issa is drooling at the chance to run (0+ / 0-)

            Obama thru the legislative wringer. The Republicans are just dying for a chance to put Obama thru that kind of circus. And no, Hillary wouldn't have been treated any easier. You're mad at Obama for December 2008? I'm mad at the Bush clan (with his father stacking SCOTUS and his brother handing him Florida and with W for simply being born) for December 2000. Which do you think did more harm to this country? Where should we be spending our efforts and energy? Sure, write a couple of flaming diaries about Obama. But fight the real source of the problem.

            Modern Conservatism isn't simply about them owning as much as possible; it's also about breaking anything they can't own.

            by ontheleftcoast on Thu Aug 04, 2011 at 10:27:03 AM PDT

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            •  Actually December 2010 (0+ / 0-)

              2008 was a wasted crisis.  Herbert Hoover was also pretty disastrous, but it's what you do when getting into office.

              Republicans are going to do what Republicans are going to do, it's how one deals with that as president.

              Unless you hold the Democratic party to some standards, you'll continue to get things like Glass Steagall being repealed etc.

              I'm mad about 2000 but so is every Democrat. No one from that administration is being pursued for anything.

              This team player BS is corrosive to Democracy. I am fighting the real source of the problem. Corporate Democrats and Republicans, including Obama.

              It's not my fault you are uninformed about that.

              Pro Life??? Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers!- George Carlin

              by priceman on Thu Aug 04, 2011 at 10:33:50 AM PDT

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              •  Well until you fix the problem with (0+ / 0-)

                the Senate most, if not all, of your efforts are going to be in vain. When 10% of the country can dictate how the other 90% live and the Senators that represent that 10% have little or no chance of being unseated (they win by roughly 2:1 majorities) everything else you do is going to fail. Period. That is where we need to put the effort into changing this country. All of it. Until that changes nothing else meaningful can happen. And it's not the millionaires and billionaires I'm talking about. It's the folks in Wyoming and Alabama, in Utah and Idaho, in the small red states with populations of cities that get two Senators and 60 times the pull of Californians. Those are the 10% that serve up the Constitutionally approved Satanwiches.

                Modern Conservatism isn't simply about them owning as much as possible; it's also about breaking anything they can't own.

                by ontheleftcoast on Thu Aug 04, 2011 at 10:42:48 AM PDT

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                •  Democrats voted against changing the filibuster (0+ / 0-)

                  David Waldman was dissapointed and he worked hard on that. I was actually excited about that campaign, but that also speaks to my point.

                  Pro Life??? Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers!- George Carlin

                  by priceman on Thu Aug 04, 2011 at 10:47:40 AM PDT

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                  •  The big problem with Democrats that I have (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Marie

                    is they responded to the racist backlash of the 70's/80's by becoming "fiscal" conservative to get back voters. And it wasn't just in the South. Do you remember the fight over school integration in Boston? Boston, the liberal bastion of the East fought against school segration harder than many places in the South. And lets not forget the "Reagan Democrats" who put the nails in the coffin of liberalism in this country. Remember them? Those weren't the party leadership that abandon the left, those were average Joe and Jane voters who elected Reagan in '80 and then in '84 in a landslide. The population claims they want "liberal policies" but when they step into those voting booths they vote for conservatives or neo-liberals more often than anyone here wants to admit. If you want leadership that ignores the will of the people that's fine, go for it, I won't try to stop you. But I want to change the will of the people. Though to be honest they're both probably fool's errands.

                    Modern Conservatism isn't simply about them owning as much as possible; it's also about breaking anything they can't own.

                    by ontheleftcoast on Thu Aug 04, 2011 at 10:59:10 AM PDT

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                    •  I remember what happened in Boston (0+ / 0-)

                      But there is not a direct correlation. Nixon used the Southern Strategy to get elected and held some bigoted views, but he wasn't fiscally conservative. Distorting the stagflation of the seventies intimidated some Democrats and starting with Carter who stupidly went with fiscal conservatism was not able to help the economy to coincide with the Volcker shock in order to get inflation under control.

                      Because of that voters turned against Carter and nothing was going to save him. he lost that election before it begun by pursuing the same deficit stupidity Obama is pursuing now.

                      It's always about the economy and who is in power. Always.

                      That's why it does no service to excuse democrats who adopt neoliberal policies.

                      Pro Life??? Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers!- George Carlin

                      by priceman on Thu Aug 04, 2011 at 11:11:12 AM PDT

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                      •  Nixon brought Milton Friedman (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        priceman

                        to DC.  Just because a majority of voters in his time LIKED the New Deal and Congress was dominated by New Deal Democrats in positions of power doesn't mean that Nixon liked going along with them.  

                        •  Milton Friedman called Nixon a communist (0+ / 0-)

                          after his" We're all Keynesians Now" statement and he refused to go along with his Shock Treatment plan. All I meant was Nixon was not fiscally conservative but he did enact many Keynesian like policies, price controls etc. though many voters were supportive. You are right. I don't think we can say he was forced to do all of that, but you're right that having a New Deal Democratic Congress and coalition of voters as well as a Ralph Nader back then was essential in pressuring Nixon who crated the EPA among other things.

                          Pro Life??? Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers!- George Carlin

                          by priceman on Thu Aug 04, 2011 at 11:40:22 AM PDT

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                          •  The burning river and Teddy Roosevelt (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            priceman

                            within the GOP pantheon were motivators for the creation of the EPA.  But is it correct to say that Nixon created it?  Or was it somewhere between didn't object to its creation and thought it might be a good idea?

                          •  It's actually correct to say Ralph Nader (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Marie

                            created it and pressured Nixon to implement it.

                            Nader's crusaders raised hell until Nixon did though the movement was motivated by Teddy.

                            Pro Life??? Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers!- George Carlin

                            by priceman on Thu Aug 04, 2011 at 12:31:39 PM PDT

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