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View Diary: Massive Protests Rocking Israel as Over 300,000 (4% Population) Angrily March | Analysis & LiveBlog (231 comments)

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  •  He was reviewing a book... (0+ / 0-)

    for the Independent.  So what propaganda work of his are you speaking about?  The Independent article merely corroborated what I originally said.  You have provided no sources whatsoever.  I forgot, YOU ARE THE AUTHORiTY!!!

    He is Emeritus at the LSOE.  I would call that learned, even if I did not agree.  Since you come off as more learned, what is your expertise in the field?

    Hope you understand what I said, but if not, it may not be my inarticulation, but your predisposition.

    by citizen53 on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 08:38:51 PM PDT

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    •  Arguments from (0+ / 0-)

      authority don't impress me.  

      The propaganda I was referring to is his recent book on the Great Leap Forward.  What makes it propaganda, rather than a merely differing interpretation, is his use of seriously flawed census data to arrive at a ridiculously inflated number of deaths during the famine.  

      "It's not a question of worrying or of hoping for the best, but of finding new weapons." -- Gilles Deleuze, Postscript on Control Societies

      by GiveNoQuarter on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 08:48:34 PM PDT

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      •  So basically it's ideological for you... (0+ / 0-)

        and you have no real expertise.  Yet you raise what is basically a stupid argument to refute people who only say that Mao killed millions.

        How many did Mao kill that we should quote him with pride?  I guess it's fine for the cause, eh?

        Hope you understand what I said, but if not, it may not be my inarticulation, but your predisposition.

        by citizen53 on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 08:56:21 PM PDT

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        •  *sigh* (0+ / 0-)

          Start here.

          How many did FDR kill "that we should quote him with pride?"

          Seriously, man.  Are you so bloated by spoon-fed 'Murican propaganda that you can't step back for even a moment and ask yourself if your statements could apply to the political leaders that you admire?

          Another thing Mao said that you should take to heart: "No investigation, no right to speak."  You should do some real investigation.

          Don't just read stuff that fits into your pre-conceived notions about "evil commies."   History demands a true accounting of the facts, but when it comes to the history of socialism otherwise smart people are willing uncritically accept the tallest of tall tales.

          "It's not a question of worrying or of hoping for the best, but of finding new weapons." -- Gilles Deleuze, Postscript on Control Societies

          by GiveNoQuarter on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 09:19:49 PM PDT

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          •  I did not quote FDR, did I? (0+ / 0-)

            You, on the other hand, quoted Mao.  Quote him all you like, but I already said that I find him a pretty reprehensible character in the larger scheme of things.  You brought up thuggish behavior and getting rid of people, not me.  Yet only SOME such behavior matters.  I understand.  You have been clear.

            I guess you are pro-Commie, since you unabashedly called me anti-Commie.  It's odd that you would respond that way simply because I said that Mao was a mass murderer and no one, in my opinion, to give advice to others.  Truth be told, I am against intentional mass murder as occurred under Mao, no matter the persuasion, even if you perceive that truth to be reactionary, which seems to mean whatever you want.

            You still refuse to say your estimation of the number he killed.  Were they ALL justified?  Were any?  Share with us mortals your superior knowledge.  

            Folks here can take a comment about whether there was no coverage of an event in the media and turn it to the strangest things.  Back to the subject, you may think Netanyahu is a thug, but the protests are not about that at all.  It's the economy stupid, as the saying goes, but Israeli style.  Even to "get rid" of him, your dream from afar, would likely not satisfy.

            Israel's enemies, no matter the location, will treat it no different.  There is little concrete action to show they wish "to live at peace with their neighbours."  Their animus pre-existed the existence of Israel.  It was directed at Jews and Jewish self-determination.  It remains, expressly and below the surface.  Until it recedes, Israel will be vigilant no matter who is in charge.

            Change will not occur until children are taught not to hate Jews, and the masses, especially the illiterate, are less prone to incitement, against Jews and the West, for exercising values that do not constitute infringement.

            Anyway, I'm done, and this time I mean it.

            Hope you understand what I said, but if not, it may not be my inarticulation, but your predisposition.

            by citizen53 on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 10:17:46 PM PDT

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            •  Now you're just playing games. (0+ / 0-)
              I did not quote FDR, did I?

              The question is not whether you quoted FDR.  The question is whether you admire FDR overall.  After all, FDR was also responsible for the deaths of millions, including many innocents.  And of course my point is not to say FDR was evil, but merely to point to the hypocrisy of anticommunists who like to play this ridiculous body count game.  You want to talk about body counts, the capitalist system is responsible for far more death and destruction than the 20th century attempts at socialism.   But of course things are more complex than mere body counts.  And they're a lot more complex than ideologically-motivated, inflated body counts.    

              Quote him all you like, but I already said that I find him a pretty reprehensible character in the larger scheme of things.  You brought up thuggish behavior and getting rid of people, not me.  Yet only SOME such behavior matters.  I understand.  You have been clear.

              The problem is that you don't understand the larger scheme of things.  You just believe whatever the latest sensationalist anticommunist bestseller tells you to believe.  You find Mao reprehensible because you've been trained to believe he's reprehensible.  

              And yeah, if we're choosing (in terms of historical justness) between Bibi and his racist colonial settler state and Mao's anti-imperialist revolutionary state, I'm with Mao.  

              It's odd that you would respond that way simply because I said that Mao was a mass murderer and no one, in my opinion, to give advice to others.  Truth be told, I am against intentional mass murder as occurred under Mao, no matter the persuasion, even if you perceive that truth to be reactionary, which seems to mean whatever you want.

              Yeah, I'll bet it does seem odd that to you when someone challenges your anticommunist slander.  I'm sure you're used to being treated with deference when spreading your lies.  

              What do you mean by "intentional mass murder?"  Certainly you're not referring to the Great Leap Forward.  What are you referring to then?  Try to be specific.

              You still refuse to say your estimation of the number he killed.  Were they ALL justified?  Were any?  Share with us mortals your superior knowledge.

              Mao deliberately killed many (hundreds of thousands) during the Civil War against Chiang and his fascist and foreign comprador sponsors.  Lincoln deliberately killed many (hundreds of thousands) during the U.S. Civil War to crush the southern slavocracy.  Both were absolutely correct.  

              "It's not a question of worrying or of hoping for the best, but of finding new weapons." -- Gilles Deleuze, Postscript on Control Societies

              by GiveNoQuarter on Sat Aug 06, 2011 at 10:50:03 PM PDT

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