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View Diary: WI: It's NOT 2/6; it's 3/7 with 2 to go. (165 comments)

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  •  In your informed opinion (6+ / 0-)

    It would have been a good decision for Obama to be a major voice in Wisconsin during this recall election?  

    "Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent."

    by otto on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 07:06:47 AM PDT

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    •  How does simply ignoring it help... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ken in MN, emal, JVolvo

      After all, the destruction of Unions is a major issue that Democrats (including the leader of the Democratic party) should be concerned with.

      YES, it most absolutely would have been a good thing to mention that the destruction of Unions is not good for working Americans.

      Especially, when he campaigned on being a strong Union supporter.

      His silence speaks a great deal.

      •  Mitch McConnell distracted him... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        David Kroning II, Cream City, JVolvo

        ...while John Boehner stole his comforatable shoes.  The only time Obama tolerates unions is when he wants their money and their GOTV resources...

      •  I think you're wrong (12+ / 0-)

        It seems that in order to answer the question the way you wanted to, you had to temper the amount of involvement you wanted from Obama in this case.  

        The difficulty I have always seen for Obama is that when the president weighs in on something, it becomes a referendum on the president, not on the issues at hand.

        I think it was best politically to not make this about him, and to let it be a citizen movement.  

        In my opinion, it was a successful movement, and it was completely led by citizens.  

        The RW tried their hardest to make the argument that Obama and his goons were intruding and trying to control Wisconsin's state issues.  They weren't able to make that argument stick.  

        "Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent."

        by otto on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 07:35:48 AM PDT

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      •  Obama's approval ratings (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sue B, mrsgoo, Fury, badlands

        are in the toilet in these districts. Him participating would have hurt a LOT more than it helped.

        Ask anyone in Wisconsin, they will tell you this. Time to stop projecting into state and local politics when you are not even from that area- what works on a national level does NOT work in rural Wisconsin.

        Will work for food
        Will die for oil
        Will kill for power and to us the spoils
        The billionaires get to pay less tax
        The working poor get to fall through the cracks
        -James McMurtry

        -9.75/-8.26

        by SwedishJewfish on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 08:06:20 AM PDT

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        •  True, it was probably a decision that was made (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          zett, neroden

          along with the local dems.  Let's get off it, it's a waste of time and breath.

          Got Social Security? Thank a Democrat!

          by Fury on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 09:45:11 AM PDT

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        •  And what does that say about his record on jobs + (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cream City, neroden

          economy and what does that say about Dem chances here in 2012?  Seriously.

          Can't have it both ways.

          People struggling to stay afloat in a shitstorm do not care about Obama's difficulty w/ opposition in Congress.  They've never heard of Grover Norquist nor ALEC.  That just sounds like excuses.  Every president has partisan opposition.  He keeps cooperating with the nutbag freaks and "sane" Boehner and McTurtle.  So who is smart and getting what he/they want and who keeps giving ground?

          That does not impress low-info folks nor win him any points in a recession.

          The Republican motto: "There's been a lot of progress in this country over the last 75 years, and we've been against all of it." ~ Hillbilly Dem's Awesome Dad (RIP)

          by JVolvo on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 10:25:03 AM PDT

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          •  These were red districts (0+ / 0-)

            many of them deep red. Their dislike for him is not because of his lack of support for unions, it stems from a lot of them being republicans who listen to Rush Limbaugh and think he is a socialist. Him coming down to support unions would have done nothing but throw fuel on that fire, and played right into the narrative (that had a lot of truth to it, quite frankly) that "outside agitators" were trying to influence the election.

            And like it or not, the fact that he gives in to the nutbag freaks and "compromises" is something that the average joe people who don't follow politics actually LIKE. His poll numbers went UP after the debt deal for that reason- because he did come across as the perennial "adult in the room". Aside from the hard left and the aformentioned dittoheads, this president is actually very well liked, and it's something that astounds most pollsters who say that the fact that his personal approval numbers are as high as they are, given the state of the economy, is almost unheard of.

            Will work for food
            Will die for oil
            Will kill for power and to us the spoils
            The billionaires get to pay less tax
            The working poor get to fall through the cracks
            -James McMurtry

            -9.75/-8.26

            by SwedishJewfish on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 08:44:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  But he would have GOTV'd for students (0+ / 0-)

              and their votes would have made the difference in the crucial 8th district race, a district with a huge campus and several small ones for the needed 5000 more Dem votes.

              As for the burbanites in the red areas, his visit would have made no difference in their votes.

              (I'm in the 8th district, I work on one of the campuses, I've seen the latest analyses today in local media, etc.)

              "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

              by Cream City on Thu Aug 11, 2011 at 09:08:33 AM PDT

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        •  I don't think it works on the national level eithe (0+ / 0-)

          I don't think this is Wisconsin-specific.  I'd like Obama to stay out of our populist Democratic fights, period, because I don't trust him to even be on the right side.  His endorsement would spark suspicions of phoniness and hypocrisy.

          Read pp. 1-7 of Krugman's _The Great Unraveling_ (available from Google Books). NOW.

          by neroden on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 01:02:17 PM PDT

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    •  Being a "major voice" on SOMETHING (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JVolvo

      more or less Progressive would have been an improvement.

      But you're absolutely right.  Had the President mixed in where the Republicans don't want him mixing in, he'd have come in for all kinds of criticism and sniping from the Right.

      (And criticism from the RIGHT clearly disturbs him in a way that criticism from the Left never can.)

      •  It's not sniping (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sue B

        It's having a clear target.  

        Think about the amount of advertising that could have been carried out against the entire citizen movement if Obama were to have made this a serious issue to comment on frequently.  

        Instead, it had to be about the issues and the people in each individual race.  

        "Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent."

        by otto on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 08:38:25 AM PDT

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        •  I meant "An improvement" for the President ... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JVolvo, neroden

          his chances of re-election, the Democratic Party, and by extension --  the Nation as a whole.

          But I can see the concern over "the stink rubs off" --  that having the This President too closely involved might have drawn Bad Press attention to the Wisconsin cause.

          But, if  "Wisconsin"  is ONLY about  what happens inside the borders of each of Wisconsin's congressional districts ... why were we treating the Recall as if it held national significance ?  

          Personally, I thought there was, and is,  GREAT national significance.  

          The President made it clear that he did not.

          Who do you think the 2012 Voters , nationally, will take more seriously -- Him or Me ?

          •  Everyone in a state under occupation (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            otto

            -- Michigan, Ohio -- will see Wisconsin as having national significance.

            Can't say about anyone else.

            Read pp. 1-7 of Krugman's _The Great Unraveling_ (available from Google Books). NOW.

            by neroden on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 01:17:33 PM PDT

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    •  No, but Obama was needed sooner (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden

      in spring, to help keep the protests going.

      It was so sad to constantly hear the protesters' rumors that Obama was finding his comfortable shoes, was on his way from Washington, was coming back to Madison that kept coming out for him in massive numbers before.

      But:  crickets.

      So the establishment sorts won their wish of turning the energy of the protests into traditional politics.  There was no reason that the protests AND the recalls could not have continued, except that the protests scared traditional pols.  Like Obama.

      "Let all the dreamers wake the nation." -- Carly Simon

      by Cream City on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 10:10:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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