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View Diary: CIA and NYPD create mini domestic CIA to investigate Muslim communities (90 comments)

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  •  I've nothing against information sharing. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Odysseus, johnny wurster, roadbear

    I think it should be encouraged.

    As I said, the lack of information sharing is part of the reason 9/11 happened.

    I just have a problem with the CIA working directly with a domestic police force, primarily because the CIA doesn't have the oversight that the FBI does to make sure that their power is not being abused.

    Also, I think it's important to have clear lines of authority so you don't have agencies stepping over each other's shoes all the time.

    In any case, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    Ideology is an excuse to ignore common sense.

    by Bush Bites on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 03:26:17 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  No disagreement, BB (0+ / 0-)

      We're on the same side.  That's what matters, my friend.

      - If you don't like gay marriage, blame straight people. They're the ones who keep having gay babies.

      by r2did2 on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 03:29:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Are "we"? (0+ / 0-)

        That's the claim, for sure. But I see very little reason to trust "you" (not personal, of course). Historically, "you" have been the real threat --- it's been law enforcement that's the deals out most of the violence in practice. Not just in the US but in most countries.

        I'm not arguing that "you" are evil --- but that "you" are a very dangerous force that quite easily gets off it's leash.

        Facile comments about being "on the same side" sounds more like dogma and propaganda than an honest discussion.

        •  Wow ! (0+ / 0-)

          Not exactly sure how to take that.

          I'll take you at your word that it's "not personal, of course".

          - If you don't like gay marriage, blame straight people. They're the ones who keep having gay babies.

          by r2did2 on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 06:49:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  How to take that? (0+ / 0-)

            That the world isn't a simplistic cowboys and indians place, regardless of Kissinger-style over-simplification with fancy sounding technocratic language?

            I mean, really. It's not that hard --- my disappointment in American education, particularly at the upper end, always grows. A huge chunk of law enforcement through-out US history has been directed toward protecting power (as well as in most other countries).

            You're not aware of that? You seem to be in law enforcement, yet it's surprising to you that your field of endeavour is murky at best? It's not personal because law enforcement is necessary -- and sometimes works very well.

            But to be ignorant of it's extreme tendency to become oppressive is well... I find it hard to think of as ignorance, but instead pseudo-intellectual rationalization.

            "Good" guys, with "good" intentions often play crucial roles in terrible systems.

            •  Nah...not in law enforcement (0+ / 0-)

              Nor am I ignorant.  

              Of course, you're correct on much of what you've said.....but, then, all of that has been said for EONS.  

              Doubt it'll change any time soon.  

              On some of the things we don't see eye to eye on...I'll go with "we'll just have to agree to disagree".  

              - If you don't like gay marriage, blame straight people. They're the ones who keep having gay babies.

              by r2did2 on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 06:58:51 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Sure -- my point is that (0+ / 0-)

                it's not a trivial issue with easy answers. It's not obviously the case that the problem is competence in authoritarianism as liberal technocrats tend to believe -- there's a perfectly good case to be made that competence doesn't make the situation significantly better.

                But the conversation is dominated by liberal technocrats on the left, and right-wing salesmen on the right --- and they somehow imagine that since they dominate the conversation, that implies that they're the only intellectually reasonable approaches.

                There's lots and lots of sides -- given that the problems are EONS old, as you say.

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