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View Diary: Republican default threats helped prompt S&P downgrade (67 comments)

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  •  This is a story about tea critters and the S&P but (0+ / 0-)

    it had to take a dig at Barack Obama. I wonder if it is possible to criticize the tea critters, as this individual from S&P seemed to have done, without someone here not taking a swipe at the President, as though these crazy people and the President are one in the same....  Just my crazy musings....

    •  Obama bears some responsibility (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jds1978, jhannon

      because he's playing their game instead of smacking them down like he should be doing.

      It's probably too late now. Obama started giving in to them early, which is what led to this mess. Obama has enabled the Republicans to start a game of chicken and they know he will always veer first.

      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

      by Cali Techie on Fri Aug 12, 2011 at 01:12:58 PM PDT

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      •  Nope, it's not too late. (1+ / 0-)
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        jhannon

        He's getting the economy/jobs/leadership message. Finally.

        As for these issues - and how they will play out in the deliberations of the Gang of 12 - let's keep the heat on the White House, the campaign people, Congress, candidates in 2012, the editorial boards of newspapers, person-on-the-street interviews, etc.

        It's not too late. The beat goes on.

        Obama and strong Democratic majorities in 2012!

        by TRPChicago on Fri Aug 12, 2011 at 01:26:51 PM PDT

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        •  I've found (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jhannon, quill

          the rules are set early. If you give in too much or are too lenient that hurts you throughout your term.

          I'll use my volunteer work at a school as an example. The teacher I work with is a really, really sweet guy. He's too nice in fact and he let the kids run over him from the very beginning. He'd nicely warn about consequences but he never followed through. As a result the students, while they loved him, didn't really take him seriously. When I came in and had my first session with his students, I told them flat out what my rules were and what I'd do if they weren't followed. One kid tested it and I did exactly what I said I'd do. From then on out the kids respected me and I never had a problem with them. When the teacher asked how I got his students to pay attention I told him - you have to set the rules early and when the kids test them to see what they can get away with, you have to follow through with the promised consequences. Best of all I didn't have to sacrifice them loving me. I received a very nice tribute at the end of the year.

          Obama gave great campaign speeches. He spoke of how he was going to change how things were done in Washington. When the Republicans tested this with the health care bill, what happened was Obama capitulated almost immediately. He said single payer wasn't even on the table, sacrificed the public option to the insurance companies in order to get their support, and didn't include a single progressive in the negotiations. In other words he rolled, and quickly I might add even though he won by an electoral college landslide and Democrats had the largest majorities in Congress in over a generation. If Bush had a "mandate" by barely winning, then Obama and the Democrats didn't just have a mandate, they had marching orders.

          Obama did just what that really nice teacher did. He caved quickly and as a result he lost the respect he should have rightfully had. He could change and start fighting the Republicans but they won't take him seriously, especially now that he not only gave them pretty much everything they asked for in the "credit crisis" but he also gave them things they didn't ask for like opening the door to cuts in Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid benefits. If you don't think lowering payments to providers is a benefit cut, you're on another planet.

          The Republicans know they don't have to take him seriously and they won't. Obama has no leverage over them anymore at least this Congress. Maybe if he gets re-elected and the teabaggers don't gain any more seats  he might have a chance, but the damage is done.

          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Fri Aug 12, 2011 at 02:53:01 PM PDT

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          •  Cal, I agree with caving problem. But he can ... (0+ / 0-)

            ... stop caving. He had no leverage whatever with the newly-elected Say-Nay Tea Party Congresspeople before all this bi-partisanship baloney. Not even their own leadership in the House could "leverage" them. As for the Senate, the just-say-No-and-filibuster GOP under McConnell wasn't giving him an inch, either.

            But to get anything done, he needed some of them. So, very little has been done in 2011. That is getting luminously clearer by the day, confirmed by each new speech of the same nay-saying Know-Nothing/No-to-Everything cadre. Now, closing in on an election, I expect the President to go on the offensive. After all, he's smart and he reads polls, too. Tough bargaining might produce at least some results we'd approve more of. Even if not, nothing's lost going forward, the pulpit is bullier and the value of our own classic Democratic campaign issues goes up.

            He is undoubtedly hearing from one person he respects after another telling him to stiffen up and lead. It's being writ large for him that the "independents" and "moderates" (that Democrats must have in 2012) simply do not respect a leader who is candy-[deleted]. I'm not giving up on this guy, despite his naivete in the past.

             

            Obama and strong Democratic majorities in 2012!

            by TRPChicago on Fri Aug 12, 2011 at 03:44:57 PM PDT

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      •  Well, Obama is not insane if that's what you (0+ / 0-)

        mean. He is the President. If the economy is blown to smithereens you think the fact that Barack Obama acted as crazy as these people that will make a difference to people who would not be getting their monthly checks? You think the President could afford to be like you individuals here who bear no responsibility and allow the country to default and have people suffer, just so that he can demonstrate he is as depraved as these people? Give me the rational for that.... The attitude here is quite childish....

        •  He's not insane (0+ / 0-)

          but he's made a lot of boneheaded mistakes, the first one being his obsession with bipartisanship. The GOP rolled him because they knew they could get away with it. Had Obama established early on he would not deal with people who weren't willing to negotiate in good faith, this wouldn't have happened.

          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Fri Aug 12, 2011 at 02:54:40 PM PDT

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          •  Well, considering that the tea party and Repubs (0+ / 0-)

            lost big on defense cuts and other spending cuts were backloaded to not have an immediate affect on the economy, I don't think you could say he got rolled, but your contention that he should have decided not to deal with these people is not reasonable considering that these crazy people are part of the legislative branch of government. They belong to the Republican Party.

            I can see it now...Barack Obama gets up on television and announce that he will not negotiate with Republicans, or Congress. You sure about that? I think he would have been directly blamed for the ills that plague us.... "The President who refused to deal with Republicans." Not realistic....

            •  Do you really honestly believe (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              quill

              they're going to cut defense in any significant way? Seriously?

              You know Congress can vote to undo any cuts. It can and will happen.

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Fri Aug 12, 2011 at 04:35:41 PM PDT

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            •  I think you've gotten that backwards (0+ / 0-)

              They are part of the legislative branch of government now, but it is they who refused to negotiate.  They want to work outside of the democratic process of negotiation and compromise, or, at least, to subvert it.  Because they were duly elected, they have a right to be at the table, but the President doesn't have to go visiting theirs.  If Boehner can't control them, that's his problem.

          •  His "great" speeches were part of the problem (0+ / 0-)

            His obsession with bipartisanship and kumbaya was well-established before he became president.  This is why I could not understand why so many folks here celebrated him as a progressive champion.  

            I think he can change the dynamic by blasting Republicans now.  Not by blasting Congress (he's already thrown members of his own party under the bus often enough) but by blasting REPUBLICANS in Congress.

            If looks could kill it would have been us instead of him.

            by jhannon on Fri Aug 12, 2011 at 03:51:04 PM PDT

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            •  The projected their hopes on him (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jhannon

              figuring since Obama is a man of color he would naturally be more liberal.

              I knew he wasn't progressive, which is why I didn't vote for him in the primary (I voted for Kucinich). I held my nose and voted for him in the general election because I was there in the voting booth to vote downticket. My presidential vote was purely symbolic and Obama/Biden got it because they weren't batshit crazy like the McCain/Palin ticket. Basically the least bad of the two.

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 04:35:26 AM PDT

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