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View Diary: Who Snubbed Jesse Owens, Franklin Delano Roosevelt or Adolf Hitler? (242 comments)

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  •  A bunch of strawmen (2+ / 0-)
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    3goldens, pot

    Can you at least provide a link to someone telling you who your heroes should be, in those words?

    You know damn well that people are referring to FDR's economic policies when they refer to his impact on people of color. Nobody gives a shit if you liked FDR the person. FDR was an A-1 douchebag for all kinds of other reasons--his internment of the Japanese, his treatment of gay people, etc. People want to preserve the legacy his economic policies, not his social policies.

    From his past comments, I think Obama would be the first to disagree with you that the left's critique of him is somehow primarily about race. Obama beat Hillary because the left is sick of Clintonian (GOP-lite) economics, and the left thinks Obama did a bait-and-switch.

    Even the GOP--they use racism as a tactic to the yokels, but they'd all elect Allen West in a heartbeat. They'd use sexism as a tactic if Hillary were president, but they'd elect Palin in a heartbeat. For the GOP, it's all about the cash and the power. For the left, it's about the unions and Keynes.

    The left is afraid Obama isn't a Keynesean because he won't bluster and embark on Quixotic left-wing crusades that won't pass Congress.  They want a Van Jones.

    I think the left doesn't appreciate that Obama can't just Jimmy Carter or JFK (or economically FDR) his way through his presidency and get anything accomplished, let alone be safe, let alone elected again. He's up against the banks, the GOP media, the MIC, and he's got to use some finesse, and keep his enemies closer. I think he's doing an amazing job in a terrifying time.

    If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

    by rhetoricus on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 04:00:09 PM PDT

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    •  You people don't know what a strawman is do you (3+ / 0-)
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      conlakappa, Yasuragi, sberel

      I'm not making your argument for you, if anything you did that with all that Keynsian bullshit.  Oh and by the way maybe my next diary needs to be on how all that beautiful new deal bullshit was written to for the greatest extent possible exclude Black people, maybe I'll talk about those FHA loans that went 97% to white people, maybe i'll talk about the social security that was written to exclude vocations held by black people.  Fuck you and that legacy of economic greatness we never had it and we still don't.  You leftist are dumber than a box of rocks with that bullshit and you know what your blah blah blah is way beyond boring repetitious and innane.  This President is battling Klansmen on the Right and dumb assed progressives on the left if this country survives both you idiots we're luckier than we deserve to be.

      "I honor the place in you where Spirit lives I honor the place in you which is of Love, of Truth, of Light, of Peace, when you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, then we are One." Namaste friends!

      by Adept2u on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 04:39:13 PM PDT

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      •  "You people"? (2+ / 0-)
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        pot, Debby

        Seriously?

        Yes, with Keynes you saw a generally smart general economic philosophy  (tax the rich, spend on infrastructure, make it easy to reach the middle class, harder to leave it) butted up against a still-very-racist social policy and network. This is not Keynes' fault.

        There is nothing racist about Keynes' economic philosophy, but there have been unequal and unjust applications of it in the US, for certain, because the country itself was still very unjust in its treatment of people of color. More right-wing economics are much, much more racist and unjust in their playing out.

        When people think of Keynes, they think of left-leaning Keynes vs. right-leaning Friedman, which has promoted fascism and preyed viciously upon people of color, in this country and the world over. They aren't thinking Keynes vs. a society-entirely-free-of-racism. (Perhaps you can point an example of this out to me.)

        The left's critiques of Obama are his Friedmanist-seeming tendencies. Perhaps you can share how Friedmanist policies have treated people of color better?

        If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

        by rhetoricus on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 05:07:09 PM PDT

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        •  Yes you people (4+ / 0-)
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          AoT, conlakappa, Yasuragi, sberel

          Playing reverse the race with memes will only work after Black people have held you down in fierce and brutal oppression for 300 years.  As I stated in my first comment to you, this diary wasn't about Keynes, I could give an entire rats ass about Keynes and at this point not caring too much about the entire country, so put that in your Keynes and smoke it.

          "I honor the place in you where Spirit lives I honor the place in you which is of Love, of Truth, of Light, of Peace, when you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, then we are One." Namaste friends!

          by Adept2u on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 05:09:06 PM PDT

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          •  Reverse the race? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pot

            Are you even talking to me?

            If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

            by rhetoricus on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 05:15:44 PM PDT

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            •  Yes (2+ / 0-)
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              conlakappa, Yasuragi

              You appeared to take offense at being refered to as you people as if it carried the same weight as when a white person says it to Black ones, that's playing reverse the race and it doesn't work.

              "I honor the place in you where Spirit lives I honor the place in you which is of Love, of Truth, of Light, of Peace, when you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, then we are One." Namaste friends!

              by Adept2u on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 05:22:09 PM PDT

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              •  Oh, no (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                pot, Debby

                I'd never in a million years suggest it carries the same weight as a white person saying to a Black person. But it's still a thoroughly obnoxious thing to say.

                By the way, it's not just white people saying it to Black people. It's straight people saying it to gay people. It's rich people saying it to poor people. It's citizens of all colors saying it to non-citizens. It's the abled saying it to the disabled. It's the cisgendered to the trans. It's WASPs saying it to Jewish people. It's conservatives saying it to liberals.

                How many times have you been physically assaulted because of the nondominant cultural position you occupy? I don't want to play oppress-off, but I will advise you to check your assumptions that I have no clue what oppression feels like, and I'm not even factoring in the centuries "my people" have suffered (as though it were all my personal suffering), like you have.

                The reason it's obnoxious, is you don't know the first thing about me. You assume I am not Black (true), but that's all you know. You don't know what subjectivities in the culture I occupy, and their power relations relative to yours. You may say you don't care, but you still expect people to care about yours.

                Respect starts with giving it.

                You embarked on a rant about FDR, but wanted to excise out the very REASON the left looks to him, and ignore any exploration of it.

                Fine, but ask yourself what your objective really is.

                Oh and yeah, I do know what a straw man is. It's accusing an opponent of occupying a position, and then arguing against it, without showing that s/he ever actually held such a position.

                And you still haven't, which is why I asked for a link.

                If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

                by rhetoricus on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 05:46:52 PM PDT

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                •  Assaulted? (4+ / 0-)
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                  rhetoricus, conlakappa, Yasuragi, sberel

                  WTF I had to turn 40 before the police would quit fucking with me I was assaulted all the live long day, if you mean physically not so much unless you count the times I got proned out.   I'm not a small or unimposing person.  I did not rant about FDR I told the stone truth about him and asked people not to be so bold as to choose others heroes.  The lesson I'm trying to give is other people think about historic figures differently.  I've linked all the assertions in this diary that require it, and I'm far beyond caring to have my feelings ratified around here.

                  "I honor the place in you where Spirit lives I honor the place in you which is of Love, of Truth, of Light, of Peace, when you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, then we are One." Namaste friends!

                  by Adept2u on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 05:51:37 PM PDT

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                  •  Ok. (2+ / 0-)
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                    Adept2u, sberel

                    " I did not rant about FDR I told the stone truth about him and asked people not to be so bold as to choose others heroes.  The lesson I'm trying to give is other people think about historic figures differently. "

                    I can really appreciate this message. Sorry I got defensive before looking carefully at what you were trying to say.

                    Yes, I've been choked unconscious, beaten, sexually assaulted, and harassed at work, all by strangers or near-strangers, just because of who/what they see.

                    But not by cops--that's fucking horrible. And a betrayal at many levels.

                    If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

                    by rhetoricus on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 06:09:15 PM PDT

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