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View Diary: Obama IS a Keynesian. Congress Isn't. (52 comments)

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  •  Except "fighting" means nothing. It's not a (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    christine20, sunbro, Fogiv

    boxing match.  Otherwise we're back to talking about speeches, which are routinely derided here.

    It's about the votes, and the Repubs ain't gonna give us nothing, "fight" or no fight.

    •  "Fighting" means trying hard and taking a stand. (0+ / 0-)

      It doesn't necessarily mean being belligerent.  If you want to make a case that Obama "fights" in this sense, then go ahead.  I'd love to see the evidence.

      The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

      by accumbens on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 07:54:28 AM PDT

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      •  Actually, fighting's not important to me, though I (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        christine20, sunbro, Fogiv, readerwriter

        would love to see Cheney frogwalked.  Winning's much more important, and often "fighting" when you don't have the votes is an excellent way to lose.

        Some would call this "fighting" by its other name, "political posturing."

        •  I guess it depends what you win. In Obama's case, (0+ / 0-)

          the big wins have been for the corporations and the moneyed class.  The rest of us get the crumbs.  That's not winning in my book.

          The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

          by accumbens on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 08:22:50 AM PDT

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          •  Too bad you see it that way. (5+ / 0-)

            Mainly because - looking at it that way - there'll never be anything close to a win for you.  

            Universal health care...not enough, it's not single payer.

            Ending the Afghan War...no good, it's too slow, and there will still be some troops there.  Iraq...doesn't count, not sure why.

            Banking reform...not good enough.  CFPA...no good, no Eliz Warren.

            DADT...he must've not really meant it, and it took two years.

            Largest stimulus ever...not big enough, even though more couldn't have been passed.

            We'll look back in 6 years I guess, & see what happened.  Till then I'm gonna work hard for whatever good change we can get.  (Tried it the other way & it didn't work.)

            Best.

            •  I could qualify each of the "wins" you list, but (0+ / 0-)

              won't bother.  (Actually, I think Obama handled DADT well, although his attitude regarding same-sex marriage is less than inspiring.)  Yes, time will tell, but I will not be working or contributing to Obama's campaign.  Fool me once ....

              The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

              by accumbens on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 09:14:29 AM PDT

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              •  How about Perry or Romney, as to "fool me once?" (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                readerwriter

                Not to nag - I appreciate your civility - but seriously...

                •  Well, you know, sometimes I think things must (0+ / 0-)

                  get lots worse for people to take to the streets, which is the only thing that might in fact change this government.  The only argument for voting for Obama that strikes me as credible is the Supreme Court make up and even then I'm not convinced he'll make the right choice on that one if reelected.  I think it speaks ill of his Presidency that Perry and Romney might by any stretch of imagination be viable.  

                  The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

                  by accumbens on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 11:27:36 AM PDT

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                  •  I try to avoid revolutions, guillotines, riots, (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    readerwriter

                    etc.  

                    All that would be accomplished, imo, by romantically "taking to the streets", is that the Right would rule for many years.

                    Have you ever "taken to the streets?"  Not so cool as it might sound on a blog, I'd bet.

      •  Yes, and we had a more (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sunbro

        active, accomplished lame duck session of congress after the tea party jihadists were elected, than any time in recent memory, because The President wasn't 'trying hard'.  

        "There are always 10% screaming about something"--Hollydem's Dad.

        by pvlb on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 08:29:20 AM PDT

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      •  Any idiot can fight. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Fogiv

        Michele Bachmann fights.  The Tea Partiers fight.

        And this next election, both will lose.  Why? Because their judgment on picking the fights suck, and they lose them anyways, much of the time.

        You underestimate the consequences of losing those fights, and just how crazy the compromises Obama forces make folks on the right.

        You're so wrapped up in the internal fight on Obama, so deceived by the Republican's filtering of the President's agenda, that you cannot see that sitting on the sidelines and pouting about lost opportunities is counterproductive.

        If you knew what Republicans really think of themselves, and of Obama, you would be pushing him, supporting him, and making sure that his victory is so overwhelming and obvious that the right simply goes catatonic in America for a decade.  Effective fighting isn't heading to your corner to sulk, it's taking whatever opportunity you can to put the enemy back on its heels.

        Don't wait for a perfect Democrat to come along to defeat the Republicans.  The Republicans are desperate now, can be broken now.

        Simple question: In the years since Republicans successfully urged the disempowering of workers and unions in the Midwest, what has happened to those states economies?

        by Stephen Daugherty on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 10:35:37 AM PDT

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        •  I love when you are accusatory and so completely (0+ / 0-)

          knowledgeable about the Repubs.  You also persist in interpreting the word "fight" in simplistic, literal terms.  Belligerence is not what is meant by "fighting" for one's principles.  Of course, Obama doesn't seem to hold to any principles, which is one reason the Repubs continue to eat his lunch.  He doesn't make them crazy, he makes them happy.  After all, they are getting much of what they want when they are in the minority and supposedly out of power.

          The best explanation for Obama's behavior, imho, is that he uses the Repubs as cover to advance a moderately conservative agenda.  He's the Repubs best friend, but they dare not admit it and he dare not expose them for the crazy that they are or he risks his own legitimacy (or what's left of it).  

          The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

          by accumbens on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 11:34:12 AM PDT

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