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  •  in my neighborhood (23+ / 0-)

    In central L.A., where many people are on food stamps and the unemployment is far above the national average, people don't complain about Obama.

    They complain about people who complain about Obama.

    Like you.  

    •  interesting (14+ / 0-)

      because his national approval ratings are at all time lows and his standing among democrats while still comparatively strong is sinking.

      48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

      by Laurence Lewis on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 10:54:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Polls only ask white folks (8+ / 0-)

        That's why you people are always shocked when your polls don't equal reality.  Didn't you pay a polling outfit an entire year that was getting it's data straight out of their ass?

        How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

        by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 06:40:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  you need to learn (8+ / 0-)

          about the science of polling. because somehow while only polling white people they're finding his approval rating falling among black people, too. and your cheap shot about the outfit kos is suing ignores that three separate polling outfits have recently found obama at his all-time low. but keep ignoring reality.

          48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

          by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 07:25:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh really Laurence (6+ / 0-)
            African-Americans are especially sensitive to the unprecedented disrespect that white Republicans have afforded to the first black President. Every time it happens, it ripples across black radio, black newspapers, black websites, and in conversations in black communities. It helps cement the ties that Obama has with the black community, and helps overcome whatever doubts and disappoints some may have. It reminds people who have experienced overt racism in their own lives that the President is experiencing the same kind of dehumanizing disrespect. It will help drive strong African-American turnout and overwhelming numbers for Obama next year.

            http://talkingpointsmemo.com/...

            Ah, so the white man is going to his polls to tell the African Americans about their support for the first Black President and Democrats is he?  Well now I suppose since I'm so fucking stupid about the "science"  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH "science"  of polling maybe he would do me the grace of providing the answer to this what question did you ask them white man?  OOPS did you ask them this?  In the face of White obstruction of the first Black President will you vote for Rick Perry?  Now you ask that of white folks the answer is obviously yes, but ask that of our community.  96% NO!

            Our support is solid as a rock, who is losing support, nay who is gaining the hate of the Black electorate as least represented by people like myself and not people who name themselves for a famous pimp is not the teabagger it is the pissed off white progressive, not Barack Obama.

            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 08:02:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  your attempts (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sgary, pot, supercereal

              to change the subject from the facts are increasingly obvious. polling outfits poll black people. polling outfits are finding obama's approval rating falling with everyone. this isn't about respect, it's about facts. change the subject all you want.

              48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

              by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 08:10:00 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Facts? (7+ / 0-)

                So a fact is an opinion as defined by Laurence Lewis and the polling outfit his organization paid for a year to pull numbers out of their ass.  

                Why don't front pagers ever answer the points made to them.  Here is a fact.  Polling outfits do not accurately reflect the views of the Black community because even if they bother to ask them they ask White questions.

                Why wont you address the FACT that the questions I proposed are not asked the Black community.  Why don't you address the FACT that the people who are gaining the animosity of the Black community that didn't already have it are pissed off white progressives.

                His support among the Black community is rock solid and nothing you can do white man will change that FACT.  We know the real question despite what your gallup or your PPP is asking is Barack Obama or Rick Perry.  We'd vote for a white man who sistah souljah'd us we will goddamn sure vote for Barack Obama.  

                However, what we will also do is take note of the Allen Graysons and other "progressive" icons who are going to need a wave of our support.  I'm thinking vote the top and a list of "progressives" who will carry the Republicans water launch birther memes talk shit about the President while looking for our support, and tell them the BlackTM is closing.

                How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 08:16:38 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  again, adept (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  pot

                  you need to learn about the science of polling. you're a smart guy.

                  48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                  by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 08:19:51 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Answer my points (7+ / 0-)

                    Your condescension is infuriating.  I hold a degree in Political Science and am fully versed in your "science"  It's not a science at freaking all.

                    How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                    by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 08:21:58 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  ppp has been very accurate (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      pot

                      poblano's analysis of polls has been very accurate. how does that happen?

                      48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                      by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 08:22:59 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  accurate for what? (5+ / 0-)

                        What fact has he kicked out, he may think he knows how people feel, but is that sound policy?  He may think he knows what people tell him, but so fucking what.  Your polls make you think that Barack Obama is losing Black support, but OOOPS your polls don't know a fucking thing.

                        How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                        by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 08:25:01 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  um (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          pot, supercereal

                          again- you need to demonstrate that the polls have flawed methodology or that they exclude black people or that they make inaccurate predictions. have you done so?

                          48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                          by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 08:26:42 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Um (5+ / 0-)

                            You need to demonstrate your poll that states that Barack Obama is losing Black support reflects reality.

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 08:36:53 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Present your poll btw (4+ / 0-)

                            You stated you had polling showing that AA support for the President was falling, so why don't you link the polls so I can examine the questions and the cross tabs.

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 08:42:27 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  here are the two most recent (0+ / 0-)

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 08:55:51 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  BWAHAHAHAHA! (7+ / 0-)

                            81 percent of blacks surveyed said that they did.

                            Wait a minute.  81% is evidence of lack of support in the community?  I'm not even going to go into the question or whether they asked the one I wanted asked.  Why isn't 81% overwhelming support and why do you equate such a number with Black people not supporting the President?

                            Your second article was a question based solely on the economy apparently and again the question didn't show any crosstabs I could see as to how many Black folks you asked, and did not ask the question that would gauge actual support.

                            Like this, In the face of Republican obstructionism in the economy who do you support Barrack Obama, or Rick Perry.

                            But the White pollsters aren't really interested in Black support for the President are they.

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 09:05:37 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  again (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            pot, supercereal

                            i said he still has strong support but it is falling. it's the trend. he was in the nineties. he also still has strong support among white liberals. but it too is falling.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 09:09:53 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  So says your polls (5+ / 0-)

                            Not reflective of reality only reflective of the answers to questions, hey did they call cell phones?  Hey did they call registered or unregistered, hey isn't Rasmussen a "poll" too?  LOL.

                            Here's my statement again and your poll is meaningless.

                            The Black community support for Barack Obama is rock solid and will only increase as we approach the election.  Here's another little nugget, but no poll will ask this question.  The Black community is finding that the pissed off progressive give the same insult and demean the President in the same way, and we won't soon forget it, because it's time for phase 2 of the Black community.  We finally got you people for the most part to get your police off of us and the open legal racism is ended, now it's time for us to get the full measure of our respect.

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 09:23:37 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  i cite polls (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            pot, supercereal, sgary

                            you cite your personal feelings and your anger. whatever.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 09:41:57 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Your polls are less relevant (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            soothsayer99, trashablanca

                            http://www.dailykos.com/...

                            Vyan wrote it for me.  I cite the fact that your polls don't ask the right question, and further state they make people like yourself think you know what's going on.  That must be why you're below the mendoza line.

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 09:49:59 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  yes (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            pot, supercereal, sgary

                            a year ago we cited polls and said we were headed for electoral disaster. some then also said the polls were wrong.

                            i've been right about the economy, the wars, and the electoral consequences. but at least you have your anger.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 09:56:38 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  LOL!! (6+ / 0-)

                            I knew we were headed for it when your front page started posting gopausauers and decided that "criticizing" the administration was the way to go instead of burying the Republicans.  Polls might show what is self evident to the dull if you pick the right polls.

                            LOL!!!!

                            You've been right?  Like what it's a no brainer to say the stimulus needed to be bigger, but they proposed 200 billion the President got 700 billion and there wasn't the votes for anything else, so what the hell does being right have to do with it.  The difference is where do you apply the effort for change, progressives doubt the President basic morals and send him pictures of the dead for his birthday.

                            Yeah I have my anger me the ANGRY BLACK MAN!!!

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 10:05:48 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  huh? (0+ / 0-)

                            i never bought into the gopoaaur game and always warned that popularity can be fleeting. i was right about that too. and gosh- who could ever read anger in your comments. but try to distract from that too.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 10:17:33 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You needed a poll a year ago (7+ / 0-)

                            I knew 3 years ago and told you the reason.  I knew we were fucked when so called supporters of the President invented the gopausauer and decided that "criticism" was the highest priority.

                            You guys sound silly.  You think you can talk nearly non stop negative shit about the President and not be responsible for any lack of enthusiasm etc.

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 10:42:44 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  um (0+ / 0-)

                            wrong again. i wrote a diary in early 2009 making the case that we shouldn't get over confident and that political pendulums can snap back in a flash.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 10:49:38 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh wow, once you almost said something (0+ / 0-)

                            that might have applied to  — almost anything.

                            In early 2009? that was really prescient. Actually it was more of picking out the cliche of the day.

                            I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

                            by samddobermann on Mon Sep 05, 2011 at 08:22:33 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  He didn't sound angry to me. (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            second gen, live2learn, LaurenMonica

                            He sounded exasperated. maybe you should buy a bigger dictionary. Also, don't be so arrogant.

                            This comment may not be reproduced or excerpted on other sites without my express written permission.

                            by psilocynic on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 05:26:59 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I'm not so sure... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            soothsayer99, LaurenMonica

                            you want to hang your argument on dkos polls.  jus sayin'

                            I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                            by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 12:12:39 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  when someone offers a reason (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            sgary

                            to discount the accuracy of the ppp, gallup, and wapo/abc polls i'll take these arguments seriously.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 12:52:02 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I doubt it... (6+ / 0-)

                            but you continue to think so...I've brought to your attention that notorious difficulty with representative samples of AAs.  I bet you five dollars that the margin of errors are different for the white sample and the AA sample and I'm not even looking at the poll.

                            I have friends in the industry who have started businesses to address the flaws in methodology in standard polling.

                            But hey, if my expertise isn't enough for you prima facie, I'm not going to prove anything to you ever.

                            The methodology of polls are notorious for not getting a representative sample of AAs.  That's no secret.  I'm pretty sure these polls didn't employ any of the tools used to help in representation of AAs.

                            But it is your poll, you post the methodology.

                            I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                            by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:11:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  evidence (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            sgary

                            this is your area of expertise. cite evidence that these three pollsters have methodology problems.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:15:44 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  So what I'm supposed to out (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            soothsayer99, LaurenMonica

                            myself because you won't accept some thing that is known in the industry?  

                            Whatev

                            I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                            by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:23:28 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  you don't have to out anything (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            sgary

                            objective evidence can be cited without outing anything. if you have any.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:35:35 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Haha... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            soothsayer99, LaurenMonica

                            I wouldn't waste my time on citing information that is probably behind pay walls or are in text books.  It is so long that I've had to actually access any information about it.  It is an accepted industry truism.  

                            Do the research yourself.

                            I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                            by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:41:05 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  bbbut (0+ / 0-)

                            You haven't refuted this:

                            if they bother to ask them they ask White questions.

                            You need to prove that the pop, gallup and abc plus DIDN'T ask white questions, or else adept wins this round.  

                            Don't you know anything about polling?  

                            "Blind cheerleading of the president will create jobs and get him to stop droning on and on about deficits no one cares about to the point that his numbers have tanked among independents?" -kos

                            by Nada Lemming on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 03:30:09 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Futhermore... (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            poco, soothsayer99, LaurenMonica

                            I bet that they used some type of weighting to try and approximate representation which really throws the margin of error off.  

                            This is what the industry does.  Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative and the true story is a bit more nuanced.

                            I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                            by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:12:39 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  you bet? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            sgary

                            please cite evidence. this is your area of expertise. i'm sure you know how to find and cite the evidence to prove your assertions.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:16:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Dude... (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            poco, soothsayer99, LaurenMonica

                            I would actually have to search for the damn evidence.  You are asking me to provide a citation for something that is akin to how to find the mean on a rating scale question.  It is something that is known in the damn industry dude...nothing special to it.  That is Marketing Research 101.

                            You do the research on your own.  I've learned the lessons via schooling and 15 years in the field.  I'm not the one who needs to understand some basic principles.

                            I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                            by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:26:10 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  this is your area of expertise (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            sgary

                            you don't have evidence of such an important issue in your area of expertise? you make an assertion about your area of expertise and others are then supposed to research its validity? try again.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:28:34 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Because for those in the field... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            soothsayer99

                            it is akin to saying water is wet.  

                            I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                            by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:39:14 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  sure (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            sgary

                            which is why it's so hard to find any actual evidence of it.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:50:04 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Nope... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            soothsayer99, LaurenMonica

                            I actually didn't look.  You need the education on my field, not me.  You go find it.

                            I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                            by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:56:12 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  too funny (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            sgary

                            and not unexpected.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 02:00:42 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Ditto! (0+ / 0-)

                            I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                            by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 02:31:08 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I did. (0+ / 0-)

                            Polls only poll those willing to be polled.

                            Even research on polling relies on those willing to be researched. Do those unwilling to be polled or researched not vote? Or vote in such insufficient numbers that their lack of cooperation is irrelevant.

                            Why yes, sometimes that is true -- like in midterms.

                            But not in the Presidential.

                            A simple example: the difference between polling likely voters, registered voters and QUALIFIED voters. (You don't hear that one very much, do you? Ever wonder WHY?)

                            I rest my case.

                          •  Nonsense. (0+ / 0-)

                            The intersection of people willing to be polled with people hell bent on voting -- and nothing else. It wasn't the poll. It was the polled. Makes all the difference.

                          •  Kudos to you, Adept. (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            blueness, soothsayer99, LaurenMonica

                            Polls ONLY poll people who are willing to be polled.

                            Period.

                            (multi-disciplinary Ph.D., iincluding 32 graduate credit hours in quantitative analysis, from structural equation modeling to multi-dimensional scaling and a lot in between.)

                          •  They DO have flawed methodology... (4+ / 0-)

                            and anyone who is an actual pollster worth their salt will tell you that!  This is my field and has been for 15 years.  I know this!  There is also a problem with young voters as well and other people of color and poor people, etc.  

                            I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                            by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 12:11:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  please (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            sgary

                            reveal the actual flaws in the actual methodology of the actual polls. if you want to be taken seriously.

                            interesting that the gang's all here in a dead diary. too funny.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 12:53:48 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You are citing the poll... (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            soothsayer99, poco, LaurenMonica

                            you prove it doesn't encounter industry wide difficulty with getting a representative sample of AA voters.

                            All that other extra commentary about who is here or isn't and "gangs" and all that personalized commentary is ironic given that if I'm here, you are, too!

                            I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                            by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:06:24 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  please (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            sgary

                            cite evidence to back these assertions. given that this is your area of expertise i'm sure you have plenty.

                            and i was in this thread last night when the diary was posted. you and others are showing up a good half day later. curious that.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:08:31 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Hey I found something for ya! (4+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            princss6, soothsayer99, poco, LaurenMonica

                            http://www.stat.columbia.edu/...(1).pdf

                            Political polls achieve their results by sampling a small number of potential voters
                            rather than the population as a whole.  This leads to “sampling error” which most
                            polling agencies dutifully report.   But factors such as nonrepresentative samples,
                            question wording and nonresponse can produce non-sampling errors
                            . While
                            pollsters are aware of such errors, they are difficult to quantify and seldom
                            reported.
                             When a polling agency, whether by intention or not, produces results
                            with non-sampling errors that systematically favor one candidate over another,
                            then that agency’s poll is biased.  We analyzed polling data for the (on-going)
                            2008 Presidential race, and though our methods do not allow us to identify which
                            agencies’ polls are biased, they do provide significant evidence that some
                            agencies’ polls are
                            We also compared tracking polls produced by Gallup, Rasmussen, Hotline/FD,
                            and the Daily KOS.   Here again we found significant evidence of bias.  Most
                            notably, the Rasmussen and the Gallup polls were significantly to the right of the Daily KOS poll.  A detailed analysis of the Gallup and Rasmussen polls also
                            suggested the likelihood of short-term bias.  
                            Our findings are preliminary, but given the importance of polling in America, they
                            make a case for further research into the causes of and remedies for polling bias

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:17:21 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Thanks, Adept... (4+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Adept2u, soothsayer99, poco, LaurenMonica

                            only one who does not understand how difficult it is to get a representative sample and especially for smaller and harder to reach groups through traditional methods would persist in this vein that he must have TEH PROOF!

                            I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                            by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:21:09 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Here's a working link (5+ / 0-)

                            http://www.stat.columbia.edu/...(1).pdf

                            at least I hope it does the study is actually very interesting.

                            It was on the first page of a google search race sampling error of pollslink try it that way too yeah the link that says link works.

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:25:02 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You are better than me... (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Adept2u, soothsayer99, poco

                            I refuse to do it.  He can google it.  But hell, my saying it as an expert just isn't good enough.  

                            I'm sure he will still find some way to parse however.  Sad.

                            I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                            by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:30:10 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  your link doesn't work (0+ / 0-)

                            and their evidence is preliminary, making a case for further research. in other words, it can't be taken as conclusive. furthermore, it's not clear that the evidence of bias was that ras (the worst, besides zogby) and gallup were wrong or that dk was. and it also isn't clear if this was ppp, which just proved spot on in wisconsin, or the previous pollster, whom markos is suing. and beyond that, i don't see anything suggesting racial bias in the cited quotes. and beyond that, every pollster admits to having a margin of error. some prove accurate over time, despite those margins. some don't. rasmussen has a history of being wrong. ppp doesn't.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:23:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  here you go (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            soothsayer99, poco, LaurenMonica

                            link

                            Just telling princess that it didn't work this does.

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:25:45 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  2008 (0+ / 0-)

                            that was markos's previous pollster. his current pollster not only has proved accurate, it is making its methodology, crosstabs and all other data available- which may be unprecedented in the industry. in other words, markos's current pollster is doing exactly what the study suggests should be done. and once again- nowhere does the study suggest racial bias or exclusion. it also makes clear that good pollsters do combat statistical bias. but do keep trying.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:34:26 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  hahahahahaha! (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            princss6, soothsayer99, LaurenMonica

                            Stop you're killing me!

                            Ok I'm done really peace.

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:42:19 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  sure (0+ / 0-)

                            when the facts don't fit, laugh. have a great long weekend!

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:47:40 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  The Fact again stop it!!! (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            princss6, soothsayer99, LaurenMonica

                            You too!

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:51:23 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And when the facts don't fit... (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            soothsayer99, poco, LaurenMonica

                            refute.

                            Told you he would never accept what you said.  Don't even know what you tried.  

                            There is no issues with sampling AA votes cause.he.said.so!

                            I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                            by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 02:54:46 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh and strange "science" you got there (0+ / 0-)

                            When I was in science classes one of the hallmarks of the class was that anything scientific be able to produce an experiment that was 100% repeatable in confirmation of a theory.  Oh well guess I should have read the books rather than look at the girls, cause I obviously missed where there was anything in polling that met that classification.  I'll go back to my original point here and bid you peace, polls are irrelevant they give people the impression they know things without doing the research and gaining the first hand knowledge of people to actually really know.  It makes white people say that Barack Obama is losing Black support when buddy you are about to see a tsunami, and I know you don't hear me, but it isn't going to be just the teabaggers who get remembered.

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:37:31 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  margins of error (0+ / 0-)

                            are common in science. i guess you didn't learn that.

                            you know what i find interesting? while you ignore the polls and claim all this uniform anger (or is a tsunami something passive and friendly?), black people i know in real life and black members of this very community prove you wrong. there is no uniformity of opinion about obama and there is no uniformity of opinion about the substantive criticism made about him. yes, there is racism. yes, that sometimes is revealed in the very words people use. but there also is deep and substantive criticism and plenty of black people themselves make it and agree with it.

                            overall, obama is still hugely popular among blacks and among white liberals. they are his base. but those numbers are slipping. people who once did little but praise him now often criticize him. it happens here, it happens with the cbc, it happens in the polls. ignore it all you want. some of us want him to make some radical changes in his approach because we don't like seeing this slippage, and the wider implosion in his overall poll numbers. some of us want him to be able to win reelection not because people so loathe the gop but because they so like obama.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:47:03 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  REPEATABLE (0+ / 0-)

                            You know works on mars works on earth works in spain works in ghana, and please stop calling on named for a pimp as your Black cred.

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:52:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  mmmkay (0+ / 0-)

                            that one flew right past me. but the facts of my above comment remain.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:55:10 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I linked the conversation in Vyans diary (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            soothsayer99, LaurenMonica

                            I thought it hilarious as we were discussing the issues of the tag Angry Black Man I was tagged with the meme at the same time.

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:09:10 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  i tagged you as angry (0+ / 0-)

                            given that you were tossing around angry assertions with no basis in fact, that you accused me of introducing race into a conversation that wasn't about race, even though it was in fact you who had done so just moments before, and that you continue to accuse me of things such as the gopasaur nonsense that are factually false, it wasn't a stretch.

                            here's a clue, adept: people get angry. all people get angry. sometimes they get angry for valid reasons and sometimes not. even you.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:14:35 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  lol! (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            princss6, soothsayer99, LaurenMonica

                            Because you're the arbiter of facts right!  Here's a clue Laurence you're funny you don't make me mad, and I didn't accuse you of the gopasauer I used the analogy of it being when I knew something.  So, just so the record is straight the only thing I'll accuse you of is using polls to base your opinions on then trying to peddle your (wrong as a fish with tits about 70%) of the time opinion as FACT.

                            Oh and I found your study Laurence.

                            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:20:24 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  um (0+ / 0-)

                            you accused me of being wrong. i explained that i have been right on the economy, the wars, and the electoral consequences, and then you somehow brought up the gopasaur, and then you said you were ahead of the game and i wasn't. even though i again explained that you again were wrong because i was discounting the gopasaur nonsense in real time, in early 2009. you have proven me wrong on exactly nothing. you have been all over the map with your false assertions. and your study doesn't say what you want it to say.

                            48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

                            by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:26:53 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  you (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            soothsayer99, poco, LaurenMonica

                            have a lot of nerve, ululating about "gangs" and "dead diaries," when you and andgarden and armando used to gather in your little butt-hurt pity-parties in dead threads over at TalkLeft, to wail and rend your garments about the Evil that is dKos.

                  •  You should read up... (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Christin, soothsayer99

                    on the "science" of polling as it relates to finding a representative sample of blacks and other people of color.

                    I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                    by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 12:09:53 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Questions, yes pose problems... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Robinswing, soothsayer99

                  the methodology of voter contact for polling is also an issue.  

                  But nope, let's just ignore that...

                  I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                  by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 12:09:04 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Sigh... (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Robinswing, malharden, soothsayer99

                your lack of understanding about polling outfits difficulty with sample sizes and finding representative samples of black voters is duly noted.  

                I for one am tired of pandering to perpetrators --- many of whom are opposed to any discussion however it comes. -- soothsayer99 DPK Caucus

                by princss6 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 12:07:35 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Know what this might make a tasty race diary (0+ / 0-)

            Because I have quite the reputation as the race man around here, and it's interesting that I engaged you in a non racial way and your response was to call into question the support of the Black community.   If one were a cynical person one would think costing the President support amongst his most loyal supporters was your goal, and bringing race into the conversation when it wasn't me who mentioned it is an interesting topic.

            How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

            by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 08:11:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  um (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              pot, Nada Lemming

              the subject line of your initial comment wrongly stated that only white people are polled. but you engaged me in a non-racial way?

              48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

              by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 08:13:44 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Granted (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                sberel

                I suppose it threw me off because rather than address the FACT your polling outfits don't do a good job at assesing the mood of the Black community because like all things in America it is run by white people it's questions are proposed by white people and their purposes you tried to use the same tools to cost support.  You are correct I did title it in that manner.  I still think it will make a tasty diary, I'll even note my mistake in it.

                How was your weekend Mr. President? Just great! Ate some ice cream, played with the kids, spent some quality time with the Mrs., oversaw the end of a tyrant, you know just a normal relaxing vacation.

                by Adept2u on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 08:19:21 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  HIS all-time low (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            trashablanca

            Which is considerably better than most every other President's all-time lows.

            Context is everything.

      •  Context is everything. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        trashablanca, Robinswing

        Mr Obama's rating might be at the lowest he has seen, but most Presidents see far worse ratings at some time during their term.  

        Now let's look at some more context.

        We already know the GOP/Tea Partiers made the decision to oppose Mr Obama from Day One, regardless of what Mr Obama actually did.

        We also know there are millions of Americans who will never approve of Mr Obama simply because of his skin.

        These two demographics amount to probably 20% to 35% of the nation.  These people will never approve of Mr Obama.

        Unemployment is also a issue like it never has been since Dec 7th 1941.

        Despite this unemployment, and despite the large block of permanent anti-Obama voters, his disapproval is only 40%.

        Eliminate the 20% who are hard-core bigots/Obama haters, and we see something quite remarkable. Only one reasonable person out of every four disapproves of Mr Obama's job.  This despite unemployment levels that are ordinarily fatal to sitting Presidents.

        The bigots and haters were overcome in 2008.  I am fully confident that 14 months from now, they will be overcome once again.  Mr Obama's unexpectedly high approval ratings support that sense of confidence.

    •  Yeah I'm sure that is what they complain about (6+ / 0-)

      lmao

      "You have to understand Neo, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged, and many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it." Morpheus - The Matrix

      by pot on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:33:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  exactly, Bonifer. (0+ / 0-)

      In much of the country —

      ... where many people are on food stamps and the unemployment is far above the national average, people don't complain about Obama.

      They complain about people who complain about Obama.

      If the Uygur Utopians spent half the time they do decrying Obama and every thing he does — and for once started pushing FOR one helpful thing — like say the transportation bill — And pushed that and pushed their groupies to push that one thing they would see the start of a turn around.

      Then they could pick another good short term fight.

      No, they just want to criticize.

      I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

      by samddobermann on Mon Sep 05, 2011 at 07:10:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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