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View Diary: A Space of Our Own: A Woman's Perspective on Sex, Race and Class and the Uprisings in Britain (85 comments)

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  •  Excellent diary and analysis geminijen (5+ / 0-)

    you have done an excellent job here. Where is the mainstream women's movement? The same place they have always been ... talking of things relevant for middle class and wealthy white women.

    "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

    by NY brit expat on Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 03:34:00 PM PDT

    •  Trouble is, they also have some relevant things to (7+ / 0-)

      say for all women on patriarchal issues - for example, the whole aspect of how marriage plays a role under capitalism and how women outside of marriage are especially screwed is more from the patriarchal anaylsis of feminism -- and this is important to understanding the special difficuolties of working and poor single mothers -- and this applies to the communities where the uprisings did occur and women's special role in those communities.
      This, of course, is speaking as a single mom who lives in a similar comunity in the U.S.  (We had our rit  on my block in 2000 - it was also an issue of police brutality (a young man was thrown off a roof) combined with increased repression (Bush had just come to power).

      •  Oops! Sorry about all the typos. Sticky keyboard. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NY brit expat, BlueDragon
      •  I think that working women and women (5+ / 0-)

        of colour can far better explain, in reality, how the impact of patriarchy (which is more outside most mainstream understandings of exploitation and more related to radical feminist, socialist feminist and marxist feminist understanding) affects single women due to the role of women as carers and as reproducers of the next generation while also having to ensure that food, clothing and shelter need to be provided.

        "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

        by NY brit expat on Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 03:47:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You would think so, but many times (as a woman who (6+ / 0-)

          grew up in a working class environment and still lives in one)woman get the childcare thing in a practical way and certainly have sisterly bonds and help each other -- but unless we also get that part of the problem comes from women's oppression as women, we sometimes fall into the same traps with men and male leadership again. We still feel we have to turn over the leadership to the men in communities.  I've seen it happen over and over. Women run the community and when it comes to policy decision making time, we turn it over to the men who have a very different experience.  i don't know.  Maybe we do it because we have sons and want to turn it over to our sons.

          •  I have a theory as to why we turn over (6+ / 0-)

            leadership to men often and that comes from being born and raised in a patriarchal society; we are taught to turn things over to men even when we know damn well that we need to ensure a feminist perspective. Many of the problems in the left was the reproduction of oppressive relations in our societies with different jargon and rhetoric, but with little attempt to actually change those social norms and oppressive relationships; the future would bring change, meanwhile some things always stay the same. I agree with what you are saying completely.

            "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

            by NY brit expat on Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 03:58:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree with this (4+ / 0-)

              I've been reading in detail on the problems Mondragon has been experiencing and their analysis on how to fix it. It's quite eye-opening to me and focuses in on some of these concepts, which it well should. The correction will happen when education of cooperativism takes place. It's such a matriarchal function that it will take a generation or two, but I believe it will happen. I'll die with that hope.

              •  on the ingrained sense of male=leadership (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                FindingMyVoice, arlene, Neon Mama

                I have a daughter.

                I owned a business. Her dad managed a business for someone else.

                I'm the "disciplinarian" in the household. Her dad doesn't have a commanding bone in his body and so it's left to me to assert some things rather than beg. (Example: I say, "Time to go to bed." and he says, "Why don't you go to bed now?" He has two children in their 20s and for 15 years I've been explaining to him that you have to assert not ask and he's never once done it.)

                Still, a couple of years ago, she revealed in a conversation that she perceived men as bosses, not women. When I pointed out to her that I was a boss and her dad wasn't, it sort of slid right past her consciousness. It didn't fit the cultural narrative so she couldn't take it in.

                More conversations have been had since then.....

        •  One of the indigenous grandmothers said (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BlueDragon, ilovecheese

          Women have the capability of carrying two spirits. I have often wondered if men fear the ability of women to carry a child.

          No truer statement than women, especially of color, understand the impact of patriarchy. They understand it in their soul I think. Thus, if we have the ability to start micro-coop funding to pull them from their situations, especially in areas of climate saving endeavors, I cannot think of a better use of society's tools.

          •  i think the fear of women's (8+ / 0-)

            power in carrying children is a primal fear.

            Western culture went from a female centered earth goddess to a patriarchal centered set of gods in the sky.  When that shift was made, a lot of things went crazy.

            the repression of our memories of that earlier cultural system is almost total.

            however, people are starting to uncovered that earlier repressed history and if that becomes accepted as 'real,' we have a basis for a critique of human nature which is entirely different from what European culture has taught us in the past 2,000 years.

            "Until we know how to safely dispose of the radioactive materials generated by nuclear plants, we should postpone these activities so as not to cause further harm to future generations" Dr Shoji Sawada

            by BlueDragon on Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 05:01:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  This is exactly how I feel (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Geminijen, ilovecheese

              I think there is a collective mind change going on. I only started realizing certain things in the last few years. Actually when Obama became president. I think he has a lot of yin and I started to "grok" things in my spirit. I think that might be why things are going so badly for him. A lot of destructive powerful forces trying to stamp out his truth.

              I particularly relate to your idea on a patriarchal centered set of gods in the sky. I started learning from the 13 Indigenous Grandmothers and their work to save the next seven generations. I believe they have it correct. I have only just learned how to pray because I could never relate to a male God in the sky handing down precepts I could not condone. I always felt that it was a way to keep us down, driven by those in power who wanted it that way. I am more convinced of that than ever these days.

              I hope you will share some of your teachings and readings.

            •  when I was pregnant and started studying (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Neon Mama

              birthing possibilities, I read about the history of the Catholic church taking over medical care, including birthing, in Europe. Prior to that, birthing wasn't as anxiety-ridden as it is now. But, more than that, they usurped the role of women as the bringers-in of life. It was the beginning of the end of honoring, much less remembering, the female half of the leadership qualities needed for human society.

      •  How did the riot you experienced affect you? (3+ / 0-)

        I'm curious to know how it changed you, if you don't mind sharing.

        •  In reality, it was just part of the problem, only (3+ / 0-)

          more extreme, of living in a poor alienated community. I remeber when we saw the fires burning on the corners where they went down the street and set all the trash cans on fire.  Most of the stores that got looted were a few blocks south of us though.
          Anyway, we just kept doing the things we always did to get the community together -- Tenant Union meetings to keep our buiding clean and respectable (getting rid of graffiti and planting flowers).  trying to get the city to fix the park across the street so our kids could play (there was always glass from broken bottles and crack vials). Trying to engage the kids in the neighbrohood.
          In fact, the "riot" did wake up the city a little -- they fixed up the park across the street, started a community policing program (much like in Brixton).   We got some more business development.  We are now in pretty good shape, though we still have to fight for our basic services (we are in what is known as a rent stabalized building -- privately owned, but rent increases are regulated -- not quite public housing).
          It's really a pretty nice neighborhood and the people really do know each other and are community.

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