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View Diary: Stop Tar Sands: Oil Companies Are Multinational But We Are Too (30 comments)

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  •  No, not EROEI (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cotterperson, enviro writer

    Well the EROEI sucks, 1.3 to 1

    If I was TransCanada, I would

    Build catalytic crackers in Alberta, labor is higher cost in Alberta but I doubt that offsets the higher cost of building a bitumen pipeline to Texas, compared to a regular crude pipeline to Texas.

    See Bitumen is like API 10, the weight or "gravity" of the oil. It just wont flow thru a pipeline without keeping it warm, or diluted with lighter grade crude.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    So i we process the bitumen in Alberta, to syn crude quality, it'll flow thru a regular pipeline. SO why is Keystone a bitumen pipeline?

    Since the Tar sands is supposed to last for 50 to 70 years, and a Keystone bitumen pipeline is more expensive to operate, you'll pay those higher operational costs for 50-70 yrs.

    then look at the energy requirements needed to steam out the bitumen from the sand, something on the order of 9 gigwatts of electricity, or.... a boat load of nat gas, or 18 pebble bed nukes at 500Mw per nuke.

    So lets say we go with the pebble bed nukes, now we have lots of steam, thats great, we also have significant electricity production, that can feed the bitumen processing like the catalytic crackers....

    You HAVE TO use a crap load of energy to make the whole tar sands thing work, were talking large infrastructure in place in Alberta, so why not also process the bitumen in Alberta?

    Its great the bloggers are going after the Keystone project, BUT, beware, this is a multifaceted project. DOnt think for a second that TransCanada wasnt expecting a huge push against them on Keystone. Which to me, harkens the question, whats their fallback position going to be? ANd how sneaky do they get in the second round of this battle?

    FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

    by Roger Fox on Sat Aug 20, 2011 at 01:18:06 PM PDT

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    •  Very Good Points (0+ / 0-)

      We may have to pass this hot potato back to the Canadian activists if KXL doesn't go through. I don't doubt they'll consider processing on site. How long would it take to build a facility like that? And I wonder what the legal ramifications are? Clearly we need to keep the attention on them and I hope this action will magnify the whole nasty process, not just the pipeline.

      •  Guessing 3 yrs minimum for a cat cracker (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson

        Legal? Canada is already digging up handfuls of oilsands, Installing 4-8 gigawatts of power eating industrial plants, whats another 10 plants... for refining?

        FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Sat Aug 20, 2011 at 05:25:50 PM PDT

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      •  It requires accessing disparate data points (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        enviro writer, cotterperson

        analyzing, summarizing. Some people dont see the pattern, or lack of pattern in the case of Keystone.

        Without the power, Keystone would sit empty.

        Theres 70 trilllion cubic feet of nat gas in Alaska, untapped. Known, minimum. Another 70tcf in Canada.

        There are no nat gas pipelines in Alaska. There are nat gas pipeline proposals, to go from Prudhoe Bay to Anchorage, or Prudhoe Bay across the Mackenzie River Delta area over towards ALberta .....

        Without the power, Keystone would sit empty.

        Is Canada going to ok, 5-10-15 nuclear plants in ALberta? after fukushima? Ok theyre new designs......not like fukushima.

        Youre facing more than 3 powerful lobbies, oil, nuclear and Nat gas. Petro chem construction contractors, and equipment suppliers.

        If you shut off the power, it all dies on the vine. < wink >

        FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Sat Aug 20, 2011 at 05:43:29 PM PDT

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