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View Diary: The 'Greenies' are back in full force (342 comments)

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  •  Yes. And "better" Democrats (11+ / 0-)

    would be at least as far left as Nader.  IMHO.

    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. John Fitzgerald Kennedy

    by penguins4peace on Thu Aug 18, 2011 at 07:16:54 AM PDT

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    •  WHat is Nader's position on... (9+ / 0-)

      I don't know many of Nader's positions on a host of issues.

      I think, in this case, Nader is being used as somehow the ideal of far left politics, when I wouldn't be surprised if he differs on a number of issues.

      Elizabeth Warren, for instance, supports a school voucher system to give parents the opportunity to stay closer to home for their kids' education.  She also does not support government financing of daycare/preschool for working parents.  

      That's just an example of how someone is just assumed to be along for the ride on every issue, when there are quite possibly issues where they would diverge.  

      "Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent."

      by otto on Thu Aug 18, 2011 at 07:22:34 AM PDT

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      •  you could like ... I don't know .... research (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        penguins4peace, angstall, Johnny Q

        Nader and find out what his positions are?  

        For all the hatred of the guy, his activism in the 60s and 70s gave activists in the democratic party and outside of it a lot to strive for.  OSHA, seat belts, consumer protection, etc etc etc, all stem from his work.  His positions are not hidden.

        Nader is a scapegoat around here, and it is a shame.  He cost Gore nothing.  Gore lost more votes each time he said during the televised debates with W "Well actually I agree with Governor Bush on this issue" than Nadar won in Florida.  Besides, everyone knew Gore should've demanded a recount and not a selective recount.  His team of advisers screwed him over.  Besides the simple fact that the Supreme Court installed Bush illegitimately, Gore's request for a selective recount was easily shot down because it offered the right a chance to hide their manipulation behind the "equal protection clause".  Had he demanded a full recount that excuse would'nt've been available.

        Also, the union of Greens and Nader was a weak one for both sides.  Many Greens felt their local networks hadn't grown enough to warrant a national presence.  They did things in small groups and by consensus.  They fought for and provided property tax relief in New Mexico which at the time was forcing substance farmers to lose their land because they couldn't afford the tax. They were doing a lot of good locally before Nader.  Nader and the Greens were pissed, just as pissed as the people that built this blog into the voice of the party it seems to be, that the party had moved so far right under Clinton.  Gore was a part of that.  He put LIEBERMAN on a national stage for God's sake.  Imagine VP LIEBERMAN???  Holy shit how did our party go so far to the right?  Gore also is why there are stupid stickers on CDs.  Google PMRC.  Gore today is not Gore then.  Gore today would never say "well actually I agree with governor Bush on this issue" ever, let alone over and over as he did on TV while trying to win votes from W.

        "Pelosi was the only damn one of the entire lot who showed any ounce of leadership the last two years"-- The Dead Man

        by musicalhair on Thu Aug 18, 2011 at 09:29:41 AM PDT

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        •  Sometimes (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          beach babe in fl

          I choose to ignore comments that start out with an insult.  

          I won't ignore yours, because the insult doesn't even address my point.  

          The point wasn't that I don't have the ability to research the position.  The point was that many times people will blindly support someone because they make a populist stand on a particular position.  

          The problem is that they often don't know the rest of the positions.  

          I was alive during the PMRC.  I know about it.

          If your whole argument still boils down to Gore equals Bush, then you are not credible.  

          "Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent."

          by otto on Thu Aug 18, 2011 at 04:08:23 PM PDT

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          •  so you just assume people (0+ / 0-)

            voted for Nadar because his packaging was shiny but you don't apply that to Gore, Clinton, HRC, or Obama?

            And to be clear, MY argument has never been that Bush = Gore.  But truth of the matter is part of Gore's argument at the time was that.  How many times did he say during the televised debates "well, actually I agree with Governor Bush on this issue".  Way too many.  And centrist dems that were sick of the sex scandals (some the left didn't care about because were actually pissed about free trade and triangulation and we'd never vote for bush) actually voted for bush.  So those dems voted acutally for bush and you guys have to make the equation that a vote for a bunny is a vote for a republican.  33% of registered dems voted for fucking lieberman.  that's the problem in our party, not the left who gave us the chance to send him home.

            "Pelosi was the only damn one of the entire lot who showed any ounce of leadership the last two years"-- The Dead Man

            by musicalhair on Fri Aug 19, 2011 at 06:55:20 AM PDT

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            •  I didn't assume anything (0+ / 0-)

              I said something about the possibility that people don't know all of a particular individual's positions, but they still support that person.  

              I don't know who they voted for.  

              The diarist chose the term 'Naderites.'  I didn't.

              It seems like you'd rather talk about something that I didn't address.

              If you can find a spot where I said that 'the left' is the problem in the Democratic Party, then I'd love to see that quote.  

              You will find where I posted in another spot that I think greens are great in local elections.  

              "Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent."

              by otto on Fri Aug 19, 2011 at 10:01:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  then you type a lot to say nothing I suppose n/t (0+ / 0-)

                "Pelosi was the only damn one of the entire lot who showed any ounce of leadership the last two years"-- The Dead Man

                by musicalhair on Fri Aug 19, 2011 at 04:15:33 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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