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View Diary: Israel's Protests Are Eroding the Principal of Separation - Show Possibility of Arab/Jewish State (109 comments)

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  •  as someone approximately (10+ / 0-)

    in your daughter's age group, I am definitely not ok with a one state outcome.  It denies two peoples the right of self determination, not to mention a receipie for perpetual conflict and possible civil war.

    What is needed is a Jewish and democratic Israel at approximately the '67 borders alongside a Palestinian state.

    •  Was going to say the same thing. (9+ / 0-)

      I sure don't feel too young these days, but I'm 'only' 32 in a few weeks...

      Heh.

      Concur.  And very well said.

    •  which is why I said "might" be less negative. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fizziks, PeterHug

      I would guess that my younger daughter's Hebrew & Sunday school teachers, all in their 20's, would not be in favor of it at all.  (and it's a Reform temple)

      My husband is with you on this, I'm sure -- he's said it many times.  I'm a little more open to it, but the idea hurts.  

      If, in our efforts to win, we become as dishonest as our opponents on the right, we don't deserve to triumph.

      by Tamar on Sun Aug 21, 2011 at 11:14:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  there you have nailed one of the Gordian Knots (5+ / 0-)

      precisely: exactly what does "approximately the 67 borders" really mean?  I am reminded of an old joke about Begin and defensible borders that when he spoke of defensible borders for Israel, he was not referring to the Dardanelles.  He was referring to the English Channel.  I forget what political situation made the Dardanelles relevant to the joke

    •  About that (6+ / 0-)
      It denies two peoples the right of self determination, not to mention a receipie for perpetual conflict and possible civil war.

      The settlers would cause a civil war at any attempt to remove them, and the government keeps authorizing more settlement housing.  Take a look at a map of the West Bank as it now is and show where a Palestinian state could go.

      You might ask the government why it is denying two peoples the right of self-determination.  It has appeared to me that the state of Israel is intent on suicide.

      When shit happens, you get fertilized.

      by ramara on Mon Aug 22, 2011 at 07:19:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That entirely depends on how you define (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      capelza, stargaze, sturunner, Rusty Pipes

      self-determination.  Most democratic nations manage to have self-determination and manage to have multiple ethnic groups within its borders.  

      For example, France used to be a conglomerate of various ethnic groups, all not considered to be French because "French" was defined as anyone living inside the borders of France.  People in the south of France are very different from Parisians.  Look at Spain - there is not one dominant ethnic group inside of this.

      Israel needs to look outside of its traditional views of what it means to be Israeli, and change this definition to be a national identity instead of a religious/ethnic one.  Being Jewish and being Israeli does not need to be synonymous.   And doing so excludes the 20% of Israelis that are not Jewish.

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