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View Diary: Five Rules for Defeating Hostage taking Politics. (224 comments)

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  •  Really? Map that out again (0+ / 0-)

    First, no deal on tax cuts, no UI extension.  Second, any retroactive vote would have to originate from the House of Representatives.  They wouldnt hold a vote that embarrassed themselves, they would, however, hold one than embarrass the President.  Theres an argument the cuts for the middle class only should have been extended before the election, but it wouldn't have made a difference in the Senate, and once we lost the House, the rational course of action was to get McConnell to make a deal in the lame duck rather than let Boehner write the marginal rates.  If anything, the republicans capitulated.  They could absolutely have held out for more, if it weren't the fear of being seen for what they were doing, which most of america completely overlooked.  Offering them just what they couldn't reject was the right process at that time, and even the policies resulting weren't terrible -- two years of bush tax cuts for the rich were only about 10% of the cost, the rest being somewhat stimulative.  

    Inn other words, you're measuring wins and losses against the wrong baseline.

    "This world demands the qualities of youth: not a time of life but a state of mind[.]" -- Robert F. Kennedy

    by Loge on Sat Aug 27, 2011 at 07:03:25 AM PDT

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    •  The UI extension would have been (5+ / 0-)

      another hostage situation.

      Too many people say there is no difference between the parties.  This would have been an opportunity to identify the differences.

      "We are trying to pass the UI extension and tax cuts for the middle class, but the Republicans won't let us"

      There are a lot of unemployed in red states too.  Republicans would have suffered politically and would have had to give in.

      When Bush wanted to go into Iraq he bombarded the airwaves with "WMD, mushroom cloud, etc."  Democrats should have been taking notes.  "Americans are hurting, Republicans don't care about the unemployed, Republicans only care about whether the rich have their tax cuts.

      Poll after poll shows the Democratic position would have been the winning one, but they punted.  

      Which is good news for John McCain.

      by AppleP on Sat Aug 27, 2011 at 08:08:52 AM PDT

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      •  So, (0+ / 0-)

        The republicans wait for a new congress to convene, fund UI but also make the bush tax cuts permanent.  That's what the Obama admin saw thru and you still haven't.

        "This world demands the qualities of youth: not a time of life but a state of mind[.]" -- Robert F. Kennedy

        by Loge on Sat Aug 27, 2011 at 08:12:51 AM PDT

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        •  The Bush tax cut extension (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          neroden

          should not have lasted one day longer than the UI extension.

          That would have been an easy sell.

          Instead we got 1 year UI extension and 2 years tax cut extension.  What kind of negotiation is that?

          They will ignore the request for a UI extension this fall - which Obama will get blamed for.  Then, after the elections they will pass a permanent tax cut for the rich if they win and if Obama wins somehow they will punt the football down the road a couple of years until DO have the votes to make it permanent.

          That is the difference about the two parties.  Republicans have a single-minded purpose no matter the consequences, and Democrats are afraid to defend their own popular policies.

          Which is good news for John McCain.

          by AppleP on Sat Aug 27, 2011 at 08:46:54 AM PDT

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          •  Easy sell to whom? (0+ / 0-)

            Republican senators?  If it's an easy sell, your 3rd para is wrong.

            Just as a thought experiment, see how your analysis differs if you assume neither democrats nor republicans are completely stupid.  

            "This world demands the qualities of youth: not a time of life but a state of mind[.]" -- Robert F. Kennedy

            by Loge on Sat Aug 27, 2011 at 08:56:56 AM PDT

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            •  UI benefits (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              neroden

              as a stand-alone issue will be ignored but the media.  Unemployed people will gripe and blame Obama, but the vast majority will never even know that tens of thousands of the fellow Americans are on the streets due to the Republicans.

              I think the Republicans are smart.  Kind of an evil genius thing.

              Either the Democrats don't believe in their policies or they are afraid of Fox News.

              Which is good news for John McCain.

              by AppleP on Sat Aug 27, 2011 at 10:23:11 AM PDT

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      •  The Republicans caved on UI extension 7 times. (0+ / 0-)

        7 times.

        There is absolutely no reason to believe they would not have caved again.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it. Eugene V. Debs

        by JesseCW on Sat Aug 27, 2011 at 03:16:47 PM PDT

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