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View Diary: Pissed at the Democrats? Run for Office and Replace Them (271 comments)

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  •  So the new (8+ / 0-)

    "pragmatist" position is demanding primaries and third parties?

    And what does Tammy Duckworth have to do with it? She was the nand picked candidate of the Party

    I don't have a particular problem with her, but choosing her as your example is beyond strange. Maybe you meant Christine Cegelis?

    •  Also (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lunachickie, m00finsan

      it's Trumka.

    •  I didn't say third parties... (12+ / 0-)

      I said Make the DEMOCRATS better.  Run as Democrats, was that not clear?

      Yes, Christine might be a better suggestion, in fact there are probably lots of them I just remember Tammy very well.  This post is very off-the-cuff, not a well thought out plan.  Just my thoughts, this minute, this hour.

      If people can't run, find someone they can support and join their campaign.   All of this "there's nothing we can do" stuff is killing us. Sapping our strength, and even though he may have gone about it the wrong way, and probably generate more anger than laughter, My Left Behind certainly had a point. We're playing right into the Tea-Publicans hands the way were going now.

      Do something positive, rather than these constant pie-fights.  Take the progressive message to the people, the same way we have in Wisconsin. The way we're doing it in Ohio.  We need to make that movement, to protect union workers and the middle class a National Effort.

      Vyan

      •  Seems off point to me (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CT Hank

        Tell people to run for office as opposed to telling the people that are running for office how they feel does not strike me as a practical suggestion..

        I don't think your suggestion really makes sense in a larger sense. It is great when people run for office, but there are a lot more voters than candidates.

        I don't think "the movement" can be forwarded very much by telling people that they should run for office. It's great when they do of course, but that seems like very limited advice for ordinary citizens wanting to make their voice heard.

        All that said, this diary is not a pie fight, so kudos for that.

        •  Ugh... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lordcopper, christine20, Jeff Simpson

          you keep assuming that I don't want people to comment directly to their current Representatives.  Running against them and/or supporting more progressive opponents is the strongest statement you can make.

          Sure we should tell the current crop of Dems how we feel, but I also think that we need to do so with some respect rather than hostility.  If you want people to hear you and seriously consider what you're saying, you talk to them like people.  If you want to make a scene and embarrass someone, then you verbally attack them, scream and shout - which is what I previously suggested would be more effective if done at Republicans, rather than our fellow Democrats.

          We're not changing the mind of someone like Dan Lungren, but we can make him look like a Ass-Clown, which he is.

          •  I don't agree with your (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lunachickie

            "embarrass Dan Lungren" strategy as I support a beat Dan Lungren strategy. I consider my approach the pragmatic one.

            I'm not sure why you seem to be searching for alternatives to a strategy that primarily relies on "tell the current crop of Dems how we feel," including by supporting a progressive challenger.

            What is wrong with that a a primary strategy?

            I'm not following why you think the wheel needs reinventing in terms of this approach?

      •  Here comes the nutpicking (3+ / 0-)

        Your call to arms should be obvious, calling citizens to get involved, step up our collective game, but you will be nutpicked to pieces. Jeez. I get the sentiment of your post. Agreed, it is time for those who complain and those who do not to put MORE skin in the game.

        •  It was expressly a call to run for office (0+ / 0-)

          And it is not, to coin a phrase, pragmatic advice for the entire group it is said to be intended for.

          On the question of skin in the game, I'm not sure what that really means anyway. Isn't the argument that we all have skin in the game, whether we like it or not?

          A call to "get involved" is hardly original and I tipped and recced this diary for one reason - it avoided the pie fight.

          As a unity attempt, it is good. As diary providing pragmatic advice for activisim? Meh. The Tammy Duckworth example was particularly weak.

          •  Please write a diary (0+ / 0-)

            "providing pragmatic advice for activisim". Or if you have already, can you provide a link to it. Thanks.

            We're gonna rise from these ashes like a bird aflame...

            by August West on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 11:15:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I have done so (0+ / 0-)

              too many times to count.

              To pick just one over my 8 years of diarying the subject at daily kos is really impossible.

              Though based on your user ID, you should be familiar with much of them. If I have it right, you came to Daily Kos in 2004.

              As you know, I've been here since 2003 and was a FPer from late 2004 to 2006.

              Pragmatic Activism was the heart and soul of our discussions.

              I took this diary to be mnore of a peacemaking one, than a true discussion of "pragmatic activism." But I thought it had pitfalls, which I think  has been borne out.

              •  I appreciate you insights (0+ / 0-)

                just wondering if you had written a diary outlining a strategy for "pragmatic activism" being implemented as we approach the 2012 election cycle. Personally, I believe that we fight to get Obama re-elected and take back the house with as many voices form the left as possible. My frustration with those that attack such a plan is that they never offer an alternative path to progress while they spend their time trying to damage our best chance of keeping the White House. Not lumping you in this category at all. Just venting and looking for more proactive voices here.

                We're gonna rise from these ashes like a bird aflame...

                by August West on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 11:45:53 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  for 2012 (0+ / 0-)

                  I did write a diary stating my view that primarying Obama was a bad idea for progressives and what set back progressivism particularly because it would splinter the coalition.

                  •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

                    I remember the diary. I only wish we saw more of such measured responses to the current situation progressives are faced with. I imagine once we have a GOP opponent to provide sharper contrast to the alternative, more people will come around to such realities. Not that it is necessary, though. The choices are already quite clear from where I am standing. Elect the most progressive viable candidates and keep pushing them to speak on our behalf. Cheers.

                    We're gonna rise from these ashes like a bird aflame...

                    by August West on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 12:16:39 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  The coalition is already splintered (0+ / 0-)

                    that's kind of the problem.  In general you would probably be right, but Ralph Nader's position on a primary is that it shouldn't be run specifically to destabilize the party, it should be done the way Ron Paul does it , to allow for the more progressive position to be presented, debated and pull the entire party more and more that way.

      •  & supporting primary opponents of incumbent Dems? (0+ / 0-)
        Pissed at the Democrats? Run for Office and Replace Them

        That is sacrilege to Party leaders, including the President.  Diarist, if you're truly advocating that, I'd like see evidence that you believe it.  Which primary opponents of office-holding Democrats have you been supporting?

        His protecting bad incumbents is one of the problems we critics of the President have with him.  Do you agree with us?

        Sunday mornings are more beautiful without Meet the Press.

        by deben on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 10:35:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  it is clear but please read my experience I just (0+ / 0-)

        added in a comment down below, okay?

        I'm serious about what would you have us fringe people do?

      •  no, he didn't have a point (0+ / 0-)

        because what Rove would like best is for these attacks on each other to continue, regardless of what anybody in them is actually saying.

        LeftBehind was just making one more particularly nasty version of the same attack on the left that I've been seeing on this site for a couple of years now.

        If s/he were so damned worried about benefitting Rove, he would have called both sides out.  His diary was just one more way of saying STFU liberals, or the Republicans will win.  Actually, that's been going on in the party since the early nineties.

        Nowhere do I understand that national security is a substitute for the law.---Thomas Drake You cannot tell from appearances how things will go.--Winston Churchill

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 10:54:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I just noticed that Vyan (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SouthernLiberalinMD

          endorsed that smearing diary.

          Disgraceful. It basically destroys this notion of a call to unity imo.

          I am unreccing and untipping.

          •  I also said they went about it (0+ / 0-)

            the wrong way. (ie smearing).  I've learned directly that self-directed snark is not well appreciated around here - so that was a bad step on their part.  I do think they were attempting to make what is essentially a valid point underneath everything else, which is that this community and Democrats in general - are growing cancerously cynical.  It's not just about being constructively critical.  For an increasingly vocal group it's rapidly turning bitter and destructive, where the actual facts on the ground are completely ignored.

            And it's not just happening here.

            For example the other day there were multiple attacks, from Glen Grenwald to Jerome Scahall, againsts Obama for failing to prosecute Dick Cheney for War Crimes and Torture.  Fact is, the law was changed in 2006 to allow for certain types of torture to be legal.  Bush did this to cover his ass, which is something he excelled at.  Short of changing the law back, which even the largely Democratic Congress wouldn't do, since he couldn't get them to let him close Gitmo, nothing about that is going to change soon.  But does anyone rally to push Congress to fix the law?

            Nah.

            Also, there is a Special Prosecutor and Grand Jury in place which is zeroing in on indictments for torture against several CIA contractors (in the new Bybee inspired legal zone where torture is still illegal, but does Obama or Holder get any credit for exerting the maximum of their legal authority?

            Heck, No!

            Vyan

    •  I remember Duckworth's campaign... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      angstall, mightymouse, m00finsan

      With the help of the DCCC and Rahm her campaign choked off the funding for a real progressive that did just what the diarist is recommending - stepped up and ran for office. Cegelis would have been a much better contrast to Roskam, but the national party in its infinite wisdom wanted to play in the GOP's "Democrats are weak" sandbox, and chose to run hand picked war vets instead of true grassroots candidates to appear tough on terra!

      But Cegelis' campaign did result in some changes - we changed the Democratic party leadership in DuPage.

      Imagination is more important than knowledge. Albert Einstein

      by michael in chicago on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 10:05:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Pretty sure I just witnessed pigeonholing. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lordcopper
      So the new "pragmatist" position is demanding primaries and third parties?

      I'm pretty sure the pragmatist-purity divide re-orients one's martial tendencies against other kossacks, and even lends itself close to hate speech at times.

      But there's our fearless new leader, reducing every idea to where it fits in a cliche spectrum.

      "Hahai nō ka ua i ka ululā'au" -- Hawaiian proverb.

      John Boehner? The sleaze bucket who hands out bribes from big tobacco on the House floor?

      by Nulwee on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 10:07:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  If you don't like the current Democrats, step into (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Nulwee

      the ring and submit yourself for leadership.

      "Because I am a river to my people."

      by lordcopper on Sun Aug 28, 2011 at 10:23:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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