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View Diary: Chris Hedges channels Hassan Sabbah (134 comments)

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  •  Later; While Carter Began Getting Policy Passed (8+ / 0-)

    for them with financial policies in the mid 70's, and Reagan slashed their individual taxation and business regs, their gusher accumulation of wealth didn't begin till the Reaganomic bubbles of the Clinton Admin.

    I'd say it was into the late 80's to 90's that it began to be quite difficult to turn policy around.

    I have to wonder about the Pentagon though. Truman and Ike both made them stop wars with no victory, and I have to feel that by the late 50's there must've been quite a few in military power who'd have been vowing "never again."

    JFK pulled up short on the Bay of Pigs but that wasn't a major Pentagon op was it? In any case he was dead before we could see what he'd do with Vietnam.

    But we have the audio tapes of LBJ tearing his hair out about Vietnam being both hopeless and pointless, yet proceeding. I wonder if the military was already fairly autonomous by then?

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Aug 29, 2011 at 04:00:50 PM PDT

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    •  OO -- OO I forgot Both Kruschev n JFK Stared Down (5+ / 0-)

      their respective militaries, who'd both wanted to begin launching over Cuba.

      So that means by the time of LBJ the Pentagon had been jerked around by leftish civilians 3 major times.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Mon Aug 29, 2011 at 04:02:45 PM PDT

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    •  LBJ didn't want to be known as (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mnemosyne, rasbobbo

      the One who lost Indo-China a decade after Truman had been labeled the One who lost China, by not pursuing  up north of the Yalu River and kicking some Chinese ass.  He (Truman) fired Gen Douglas MacArthur for trying to do that.

      This was all back when the 'pubbies were selling  Scary Commie Stories and holding witch hunts.  That
      was around when I started first paying attention

      Kennedy and Johnson just inherited a minor mess from early in Ike's presidency; we  never should have gotten involved there in the first place, but Vietnam got caught up in our anti-Commie hysteria, the never-ending stream of propaganda that serves to justify the existence of the Military-Industrial Complex that Ike tried to warn us about in 1959.

      Same theater, different show. Now its the War on Terra and a population conditioned to quiver with fear at the blink of a media image, while the final looting of what remains of the Middle Class continues unabated.

      None of this shit is new; Hedges is just the latest in a long list of journalists and writers and thinkers that have been sounding warnings and alarums for generations now. Such are marginalized, kept on the fringe; the truths they tell are just too uncomfortable for people who are invested into the system (401k anyone?) to want to explore until they they get slammed by that oncoming economic train they thought  was light at the end of the tunnel.

      I am amazed that I still have some level of faith that this can all be sorted out through electoral politics as it now exists, sort of.

      "Mr. Obama needs to put forward a comprehensive plan and fight for it. If he loses to obstructionist Republicans, Americans will know who is to blame."---NYT

      by claude on Mon Aug 29, 2011 at 09:29:22 PM PDT

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      •  How many people (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        claude, rasbobbo

        in this country, or even on this blog, can tell you anything about the battle of Dien Bien Phu? Or recognize the nane.

        I don't suppose we'll ever know for certain, but supposedly JFK was seriously considering getting out of SE Asia just before he was murdered.

        Yours is one of the best comments on this whole mess I've seen in some time.

        Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson

        by Mnemosyne on Mon Aug 29, 2011 at 10:12:54 PM PDT

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        •  I was trying to remember the General, (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rasbobbo, Mnemosyne

          the Vietnamese General who brought down DBP.  Was  it Giap?  Too lazy to google it.

          We all got quite an education about SE Asia back in the 60s and I can still remember some of it

          Thank you, BTW, Mnem.

          "Mr. Obama needs to put forward a comprehensive plan and fight for it. If he loses to obstructionist Republicans, Americans will know who is to blame."---NYT

          by claude on Mon Aug 29, 2011 at 10:34:04 PM PDT

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          •  Yes, General Giap (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rasbobbo, claude

            And he brought down the US of A as well as Dien Bien Phu.

            Odd, the Wiki says he's still alive, but I thought he'd died. Maybe I was thinking of another.

            Somewhere, I have a copy of his memoir, Big Victory, Great Task. Too bad no one in DC ever read it.

            Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson

            by Mnemosyne on Mon Aug 29, 2011 at 10:46:05 PM PDT

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            •  it is the ancient lesson (0+ / 0-)

              that empires still ignore at their peril; you just can't occupy a nation of people determined to not be occupied.  They are fighting for their homes and culture on their home ground and they will do whatever it takes, whether we call it terrorism or not.

              And we Americans would do precisely the same to anyone who tried to occupy us and feel utterly justified.

              We stumbled into Vietnam at the end of their 1000 year struggle for independence against China; we were the final obstacle and they read us correctly.  We didn't (thankfully) have the stomach to be as brutal as it was going to take to put the Viets down.

              Same thing is true now; our guys have to be the good guys and so they can't get all medieval on the villagers.

              I am very pleased it was Giap; my memory still works.

              "Mr. Obama needs to put forward a comprehensive plan and fight for it. If he loses to obstructionist Republicans, Americans will know who is to blame."---NYT

              by claude on Tue Aug 30, 2011 at 07:42:07 PM PDT

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    •  LBJ wanted the war as a distraction, (0+ / 0-)

      from the Civl Rights struggle, the Great Society, etc. He wanted to 'kill the commies' and bring the troops home, 'victorious',  to take the heat off of himself. He really 'stepped in it'.

      May you live in interesting times--Chinese curse

      by oldcrow on Mon Aug 29, 2011 at 11:47:31 PM PDT

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