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View Diary: Chris Hedges channels Hassan Sabbah (134 comments)

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  •  Excuses have nothing to do with it (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    willibro, Agathena, RiaD

    But there can be circumstances when the best among us have moments when not at their best.

    So often people are completely dichotomous in judgement of others, as if there isn't context that helps to explain things people do, as if people are either wholly good or wholly evil, with nothing in between.

    I reject that overly simplistic way of viewing another human being. I see some people have arrived to give me the same mob-rush-to-judgement, a kind of shoot-first-ask-questions-later approach.

    I'm proud of one thing here: I try to never get bogged down in group-think.

    •  Your commentary: (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Drewid, Avila, Sybil Liberty

      Regarding Edger:

      ew] I'm sorry, Edger (4+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:Agathena, frandor55, RiaD, Uberbah
      Hidden by:Drewid
      that you were banned. You've contributed good things here. Maybe you're better off. Too many here don't see what you see.

       Towards the decent people of this community:
      But the fact is Edger has contributed good work here. And I am sorry he is banned.
      I don't condone what Edger did, but feel free to willfully misinterpret. Get me banned, I'll wear it as a badge of honor.

      Go ahead, call your posse. Send this to admin. Assemble your mob. .  . . Oh my, call your thought police.

      You clearly paint those outraged (undisputably rightly) as being hyperemotional oppressors, and you are 'sorry' that Edger suffered consequences for his disgusting behavior.

      Your rhetorical tricks do not conceal your naked partisanship here.  

      Edger deserves sympathy, because he shares your ideology.   He should not have been banned, because you like him.  

      I am truly sorry that your overt apologism for disgusting, immoral, unethical, sleazy behavior is not welcomed.

      "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

      by Geekesque on Tue Aug 30, 2011 at 09:22:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  well: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Drewid, Avila
      I'm proud of one thing here: I try to never get bogged down in group-think.

      Pride, as they say, goeth before a fall. Truth is, there are few people on this blog more a-muck in the bog of group-think, than you.

      •  Sweet (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TheMomCat, Agathena, RiaD

        Your empty name calling helps. So many things to say, and you come up with that. And you, of all people, who I've never seen vary from the opinions of your cohorts, aren't exactly in a position to criticize. You're one of the most divisive of persons here.

        And you're another person who never concedes a point, never finds a way to make peace, never offers an understanding crumb of common decency to anyone whom you've put into your crosshairs, that I have seen. You're a "go for the jugular" kind of guy. Get's old.

        How did you end up in this dead thread? Did the bat-sign go out? Out carousing for someone to pummel?

        And to trip over the word "proud" in such a predictable retort says much about your tactics. I thought about editing that word out of my comment, but I thought people here were intelligent and scrupulous enough to not willfully exploit my candid explanation, and to take the word in the sense that it was used: Proud in the sense of feeling okay and comfortable with my responses.

        •  wow (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blueness, poco

          don't give up your day job.  this has got to be one of the most erroneous characterizations i have ever read.

          i know this individual very well. not just in the online sense of the word.  fairness and consideration are two of the qualities i most admire in him.  i don't know the history between you two, but i hope you will reconsider your mischaracterization.

          •  People perceive others (5+ / 0-)

            according to where they stand when the shit begins to fly.

            And common to most people is the tendency to assume that their particular experiential vantage point should be accepted to be the basis of reality for others, even when those others are having a far different experience.

            My summary of Blueness isn't meant to be exhaustive of all aspects of his range of expression, it is the view that comes from my having witnessed him in his battles here.

            No doubt you've seen a side that I haven't. I would welcome that side of him to surface here in this instance.

            Nice of you to join the conversation, which began with me showing empathy to a person I respect who just got banned, a person who also has facets to his personality which people may experience differently depending on where they stand.

            I made one comment to him which sparked this discussion. Step back and look at this ridiculous thread in which I have been attacked for that one expression of personal empathy.

            Hmm. Is this tolerant? Is this kind? Is this necessary?

            •  maybe you do (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              blueness, poco, RiaD
              People perceive others

              according to where they stand when the shit begins to fly.

              i knew Edger slightly, a couple of years ago. what he did yesterday was shocking to me (and many others). it was a flat-out betrayal of trust -- and very uncharacteristic of the Edger i thought i knew.  i'm not going to criticize you for empathy, but this is a fresh wound, and your timing (and perhaps venue) are working against you.  my empathy is with the person who extended kindness and generosity, only to be distressed and vulnerable for her graciousness.

              if you "hate the sin, but love the sinner" (not the best analogy but i'm late), i can understand the way you feel.  i truly wish this had never happened at all, but no one consulted me or you before an irrevocable harm was done.

              peace.  

               

              •  Thank you (5+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Avila, gooderservice, TheMomCat, Agathena, RiaD

                I like the tone here far better.

                I've already answered upthread in detail the points you raise, which were brought up by others. Have you read them? Including the back and forth that occurred? Why repeat them here?

                Does it help to draw this out? I made one comment in the middle of the night. Imagine what would have occurred if people just ignored it.

                I've seen others who were banned treated well by people who liked them. The sight managers were demonized for banning them, people wrote defensive diaries on their behalf, and the response in the comments was all out warfare.

                I'm sure you can think of a few that fit this description.

                I'm just one person who wanted to offer a kind remark to a person who was banned. I don't defend the action, as I've already abundantly made more than clear. And yet here we are, in a long thread, hashing this out.

                I stand by everything I've said about this in my posts here.

          •  By the way... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TheMomCat, Agathena, RiaD

            Is this that wonderful person you know so well?

            But then, you seem very much to be in a primitive, larval stage of development, and so there is much of which you are unaware.

            Read his post in answer to mine, to get a good example of exactly what I had been referring to in my comment to him. He rather inadvertently revealed himself in his haste to smite me. I guess he doesn't take criticism well, despite his tendency to dish it out rather reliably.

            Yes, he's a saint. The halo is so bright you must have been blinded by it.

            •  yes, the very same (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              blueness

              if his halo slipped, and i haven't read this entire thread so i'm not saying it did or didn't, all i can tell you is that he's picked mine up and dusted it off for years, especially when i resisted it.  i know you are troubled right now, as i am.  but you seem a decent and reasonable person at heart.  i hope you will re-evaluate after a little time to adjust to something i don't think either of us expected.

              •  If his halo slipped? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                TheMomCat, RiaD

                You have certainly seen his post. Do you think the "larval stage" comment is something that is acceptable? Or is this yet another example of the double standard that is becoming so common around here?

                My comment above is hide ratable, his is not?

                This is why these discussions never get anywhere.

                And I am not "troubled right now." I made a remark not because I was "troubled," but out of personal empathy to a fellow human being, and the way this has been attacked tells me loads about some of the personal standards of behavior present in the community. That I do find disturbing.

                And I don't like being bullied. I'm quite sick of it, frankly.

        •  oh, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Avila, Drewid, poco

          I "vary from the opinions of [my] cohorts" all the time. All the time. If you were as aware as you flatter yourself to be, you would know that. But then, you seem very much to be in a primitive, larval stage of development, and so there is much of which you are unaware. It is for this reason that you amusingly feel "proud" to be above the bog of group-think, when in fact you are a chief organ-grinder of it. I think particularly of your extraordinarily authoritarian and atavistic disinterment of McCarthyism in foaming that the "tendency to attack dissent from the left is anti-American." I mean: really. You even still believe in things like "American" and "anti-American"? How quaint. And I am not guided by "bat-signs." Again, if you were aware, you would know that I am instead the target of them.

          •  Thanks for that (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TheMomCat, RiaD

            Your reply is a wonderful, rather perfect example of exactly what I was referring to about your behavior. I couldn't have received any better confirmation than by your own unwitting hand.

            As to the diary you criticized, it seems not all here share your view. Here's a list of those who rec'd it:

               

            Meteor Blades, jbou, reef the dog, Mark Sumner, fly, claude, Anthony Segredo, Tookish, Lupin, JekyllnHyde, Alumbrados, paradox, Ed in Montana, Angie in WA State, maryb2004, renska, boydog, jec, MediaFreeze, northsylvania, From the choir, raboof, LeislerNYC, PrahaPartizan, itsbenj, MadRuth, hester, grollen, debcoop, Jackson L Haveck, dalemac, deben, Marie, roonie, Liberal Thinking, GreenSooner, badger, msl, mattman, emal, pelican, wytcld, sacrelicious, tnichlsn, sphealey, Shockwave, byteb, Fishgrease, Emocrat, Pescadero Bill, Wintermute, CleverNickName, CupaJoe, liz, meg, LEP, Aspe4, baracon, GayHillbilly, KateG, TX Unmuzzled, xynz, terhuxtim, StevenJoseph, RodE, autoegocrat, Rachael7, MpeachW, Mumon, delver rootnose, RFK Lives, FyodorFish, object16, floridagal, Jerome a Paris, expatjourno, mysticl, hubcap, niemann, ssgbryan, Dumbo, checkmate, opinionated, TheMomCat, bronte17, biryanifan, conchita, TracieLynn, elveta, Euroliberal, whenwego, djMikulec, Agathena, JFKinSoDak, sayitaintso, Geonomist, fishwars, cosmic debris, gayntom, chechecule, LeftofArizona, taonow, JuliaAnn, CanisMaximus, oceanspray, bincbom, ctsteve, enough already, splashy, Beelzebud, nalakop, Wamsutta, revsue, tomephil, tidalwave1, pat7724, caseynm, Eric Blair, psnyder, hangingchad, Lynwaz, Dallasdoc, mrkvica, Quentin, businessdem, 2laneIA, StuartZ, gmb, Viola Lee, crackpot, rflowers, Ender, JimWilson, astronautagogo, churchylafemme, wilbur, baldwip, hoplite9, penguins4peace, The Walrus, puffin6092, deantv, alizard, clarknyc, Pohjola, inclusiveheart, cevad, dkmich, green917, jen, Deward Hastings, Marianne Benz, ScienceMom, jcrit, Virginia Liberal, vacantlook, xxdr zombiexx, J Orygun, greeseyparrot, tea in the harbor, Big Tex, nehark, Fabian, Massman, kbman, mediaprisoner, ms in la, cantwait08, Bluesee, marina, 3goldens, NoMoreLies, CTPatriot, disrael, democracy inaction, Erik the Red, corvo, Philoguy, Flint, run around, truong son traveler, drewfromct, Brooke In Seattle, chidmf, 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cloudbustingkid, Don midwest, Vinnie Vegas, Terra Mystica, cville townie, rmonroe, msblucow, Michael91, rogerdaddy, Corporate Dog, edg, gendjinn, wave of change, Shahryar, NotGeorgeWill, MikePhoenix, zerone, poligirl, geez53, dave1042, blueman1, lexington50, elwior, Cat Servant, wade norris, billvb, ajr111240, rssrai, tofumagoo, Ministerbruce, davekro, MrJayTee, demoKatz, Wek, geomoo, icebergslim, pickandshovel, Missys Brother, rubine, Thought Crime, Seamus D, temptxan, the new, Sameer Dossani, petulans, LaEscapee, Parthenia, DixieDishrag, HarpboyAK, priceman, Quilldriver, Robobagpiper, Mike Taylor, revelwoodie, dirtdawg, Celtic Merlin, JGBfan, cameoanne, Rhysling, Florene, cybrestrike, world dancer, George Hier, DeepLooker, aufklaerer, two roads, divineorder, BigAlinWashSt, The Dead Man, socalmonk, output, bsmechanic, banjolele, stolen water, Field of Dreams, Nebraskablue, Norm in Chicago, Methinks They Lie, rem123, tweedy54, Partisan Progressive, Nailbanger, Patch Adam, mkor7, CamillesDad1, JesseCW, Fixed Point Theorem, Daily Activist, dRefractor, RageKage, zaka1, obiterdictum, ThinkerT, SnowItch, Knarfc, edtastic, ohmyheck, schnecke21, angel d, Leftcandid, ratmach, ruscle, parallaxblue, YellerDog, Razorblade, angry liberaltarian, awcomeon, spunout, pyegar, FogCityJohn, David PA, flitedocnm, roadbear, veracityus, PZinOR, jethrock, ATFILLINOIS, Eddie L, Nurse Jeckell, gulfgal98, Lady Libertine, peacearena, Perfektion, albrt, melfunction, JRandomPoster, ffour, Muggsy, Johnny Q, itswhatson, Pay It Forward, Betty Pinson, roystah, Murchadha, Nada Lemming, Vik in FL, DirkFunk, wabird, rasfrome, tgrshark13, bicycle Hussein paladin, al ajnabee, renbear, Colorado is the Shiznit, angstall, targetdemographic, Bluefin, heart of a quince, allenjo, opticnerver, ozsea1, darkmatter, Oldowan, vahana, Cintimcmomma, VoteBlue, poorbuster, Susipsych, m00finsan, jididly, BlackQueen40, Situational Lefty, California06, just one victory, Aranfell, Kcox, Jasonhouse, Element 61, 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          •  That's well within the standards of a hide ratable (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TheMomCat, RiaD

            comment. Larval stage?

            Wow, indeed. And your friends love you for this?

            •  how (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Drewid, poco

              funny you are. "Larval stage" is "well within the standards of a hide ratable comment" . . . says he who damns those who are not him as "anti-American."

              As someone who so very recently presented himself as a veritable oracle on all things "hippie," surely you are aware of the nature and meaning of "larval stage" within Leary world, and therefore know it to be a term not "hide-ratable" in the least.

              And few things are more pitiful than someone who deploys recs on a blog as a measure of his worth (and to reproduce all the names!). Didn't you just tell us that "I'm proud of one thing here: I try to never get bogged down in group-think." Why then would you care what that group thinks?

              •  Several Strawman (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                RiaD

                1) Anti-american was used in an ironic sense, as you would know if you had read the comments. It was a play on those who think dissent is disloyal.

                2) I don't consider myself an expert on "hippiedom" but I do have a point of view about that, which I've expressed. Sue me.

                3) What a hilarious defense of your "larval" comment: You were actually giving me a compliment, and you use Leary to support your case. Obviously your intent was to insult. But that you would use such a defense, even if pure snark, indicates a glib, superficial mentality.

                4) I don't use support on a blog as a measure of worth. In fact, worth is not something I knew was being discussed. Are you asserting I have low worth?

                More of that jugular vein attack mode, I see. You're a credit to the site.

                I will give you one thing, so that at least one of us can concede a point, like people do in civil discourse (heh), and that is the number of recs truly is not an argument in a debate over ideas. But we aren't exactly debating ideas here: You've made this into just another cyber dual of quips at this point; a contest of ad hominens and insult. I concede you've won. And since personal worth (you wrote "your worth," indicating my personal value as a human being, which you brought into this discussion) is subjective, thankfully there are some in the community who disagree with you.

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