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View Diary: I am a 'moderate' on Obama (78 comments)

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  •  I'm glad you mentioned media system (7+ / 0-)

    All the comparisons to LBJ or FDR seem to leave out the 24/7 media that they didnt have to deal with.

    I think what frustrates me when I hear that Obama isnt transformative, is that, well, a lot of that has to do with GOP obstruction. Their plan seems to work well, they block everything Obama wants, and the left blames...Obama.

    •  but what I don't get is this (9+ / 0-)

      yes, Obama can't get anything past the GOP controlled House, and the right wing media is going to tear him up no matter what.  But why does he have to adopt their rhetorical framing so often?  Why does he have to concede that the deficit is more important than jobs, or that Federal workers should take a pay cut, or that Social Security needs fixing?

    •  Republican obstruction can only be used (6+ / 0-)

      so far as a defense.  He started out with 59 senators and a generous majority in the House.  His House passed everything he wanted and more.  It can't be explained how a ticket of two senators, one with decades of experience, couldn't be "transformative" with 59 senators and at that almost certainly the most progressive Democratic senate majority in history.

      So yes I'll take your excuse for this year, with a Republcian House and narrower senate majority, but he still had over a year when he (and the senate) should have done more

      I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

      by James Allen on Tue Aug 30, 2011 at 10:54:28 PM PDT

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      •  I agree he should have gotten (7+ / 0-)

        more done with the Senate majority. But remember the Senate majority had conservatives like Ben Nelson, Joe Lieberman, Mark Pryor, Landrieu, etc.

        Past Dem majorities may had more conservatives, but they also had a lot of actually moderate even liberal Republicans who were able to put policy over party, and work with a Dem president. So it may have been the most progressive Dem majority, but probably not the most progressive majority overall.

        •  I understand that (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JayinPortland, fizziks

          but I don't know if I can agree with it.  On the balance, the Republicans are more extreme than probably any senate ever, but then with the additions of Sherrod Brown, Tom Udall, Sheldon Whitehouse, Jeff Merkley, Bernie Sanders, etc., I think it's safe to say it was the most progressive majority ever.  And Mark Pryor, btw, was the only one of the above who I don't recall ever being problematic on a priority, even EFCA he tried to salvage after Blanche and Ben Nelson brought it down.

          I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

          by James Allen on Tue Aug 30, 2011 at 11:36:38 PM PDT

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          •  Didn't matter (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sunbro, jan4insight, Deep Texan, Jerry056

            He had 50 voted and needed 60 to stop the filibuster.  They filibustered EVRYTHING,

            If Kucinich, Grayson, Sanders or Feingold were President, you'd be accusing them of betrayal right now.

            by snout on Tue Aug 30, 2011 at 11:44:18 PM PDT

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            •  that's too easy of an answer (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JayinPortland, fizziks

              and ignores that they did pass some things, even before Franken was sworn in, and even after Brown replaced Kennedy.  Obviously is wasn't impossible to pass bills.

              I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

              by James Allen on Tue Aug 30, 2011 at 11:49:07 PM PDT

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              •  Right. (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                sewaneepat, Deep Texan, Jerry056, Fabienne

                It was simply impossible to pass the kinds of bills that would have made you feel satisfied.

                He got TONS done with those 59 senators.  It was an incredibly productive congress.  But your critique is that there should have been more.  My answer is it was amazing that there wasn't a LOT less.

                If Kucinich, Grayson, Sanders or Feingold were President, you'd be accusing them of betrayal right now.

                by snout on Tue Aug 30, 2011 at 11:54:30 PM PDT

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                •  considering that at no previous time in history (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JayinPortland

                  was it considered necessary to have 60 votes to pass a bill, I think it doesn't take much to impress you.

                  I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

                  by James Allen on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 12:18:01 AM PDT

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                  •  Do I have to break out the chart... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Deep Texan

                    ...comparing the use of the filibuster in previous years to 2009 and 2010?

                    If Kucinich, Grayson, Sanders or Feingold were President, you'd be accusing them of betrayal right now.

                    by snout on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 12:31:53 AM PDT

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                    •  no, because I just said whatever (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      JayinPortland

                      you're going to try to prove.  You think it proves your point.  It doesn't.

                      Look, this is a useless debate, and I'm done with it.  I am like the diarist.  I sometimes criticize the president, and sometimes criticize him.  I have never seen you agree with any criticism.  I don't think its useful taking to you.

                      I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

                      by James Allen on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 12:49:17 AM PDT

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                      •  Why not ask? (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Deep Texan

                        If you want to know if someone is willing to criticize the President, ask what areas of critique they have.  You might be surprised.

                        Anyhow - you are all over the map.  You say Obama didn't do enough.  I point out the filibusters that stopped him.  You counter that the filibuster didn't stop him from getting a lot through. So which is it?

                        The obvious truth is that they got a lot done, but were blocked at getting anything profound done.  I think most reasonable people would agree with that assesment.

                        Anyhow - have yourself a merry little Christmas or whatever.  Swell talking.

                        If Kucinich, Grayson, Sanders or Feingold were President, you'd be accusing them of betrayal right now.

                        by snout on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 01:07:10 AM PDT

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                      •  Is this a Freudian slip? (0+ / 0-)

                         I sometimes criticize the president, and sometimes criticize him.

                        You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

                        by sewaneepat on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 04:05:28 AM PDT

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                        •  Meant to blockquote the text. (0+ / 0-)

                           

                          I sometimes criticize the president, and sometimes criticize him.

                          Too early in the morning to work buttons.

                          You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

                          by sewaneepat on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 04:06:41 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

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