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View Diary: What "SpeechDate" Really Shows (362 comments)

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  •  Then I want to hear how it happens without them. (5+ / 0-)

    It seems curiosity has killed the cat that had my tongue.

    by Murphoney on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 07:57:59 AM PDT

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    •  Oh Nothing's Going to "Happen" (22+ / 0-)

      ...that's a given.  The best we can hope for is a bold proposal that the people like that goes nowhere.

      •  That's not a Presidential Address, that is a (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rcnewton, Kickemout, Whimsical

        campaign promise.

        It seems curiosity has killed the cat that had my tongue.

        by Murphoney on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 08:02:28 AM PDT

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        •  It Is What It Is (20+ / 0-)

          GOP Leadership has explicitly stated that defeating President Obama is more important to them than the economy, education, foreign policy, etc.  

          For making this statement they paid zero penalty.  In fact they were rewarded with control of the House and a progress proof minority in the Senate.

          Who knows, maybe the President's lawyers have told him he can take 100% of the budget of the Departmnet of Labor and hire people with it, and that's what he's going to announce.  But SHORT of something like that, we have to consider the facts as they are.

          •  so true. So what does Obama do? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mint julep

            Chides "Congress" for obstructing, rather than explicitly calling out the Republicans who are the problem.  How do you justify that?

            "Mr. Obama needs to put forward a comprehensive plan and fight for it. If he loses to obstructionist Republicans, Americans will know who is to blame."---NYT

            by claude on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 10:27:21 AM PDT

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            •  well, it usually takes me a while (0+ / 0-)

              to respond to comments, so I'll keep waiting for an answer.

              "Mr. Obama needs to put forward a comprehensive plan and fight for it. If he loses to obstructionist Republicans, Americans will know who is to blame."---NYT

              by claude on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 11:16:35 AM PDT

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            •  crickets... (0+ / 0-)

              "Mr. Obama needs to put forward a comprehensive plan and fight for it. If he loses to obstructionist Republicans, Americans will know who is to blame."---NYT

              by claude on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 12:41:29 PM PDT

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        •  It's a Presidential Address if it gives voice to (20+ / 0-)

          what the country actually needs.  It's not just a partisan speech, a campaign speech, though it will affect the campaign, if it tells the truth about where we are and what can move this country forward.

          That's what we want.

          And I say that as someone fully convinced that Obama has been RIGHT to make many biparatisan overtures, that what DKos diarists see as weakness is often seen by non-activists as serious effot to get things done.  It's crucial that Obama has appeared to be working harder than the Republicans to bring Washington together.  Still, he must also be willing to get up and say clearly just what needs to be done, and to fight for that even if he loses, even if he's doomed to lose.  

          Being President is always partly theater.  The point now is that it has to be theater that touches people's experience of how bad things are, and lays out some ways to move forward.

          Then Obama has to do as much as he can via the powers of the president, without Congress, and pass some really good stuff through the Senate for the House to torpedo.  And ask the American people which way they want the country to go.

          •  Unilateral bipartisanship was never (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            claude

            a viable concept.  The only thing it accomplished besides making Obama appear inattentive was most of whatever the Republicans wanted.

            If Obama changes his tune now he will finally be joining the story already in progress but if he counts on Congress for anything that he wants to accomplish, including 'proving his point' in some coup counting flourish, he is not doing the work we need.  He needs to have a complete plan of action and -- at the absolute very least -- he needs to have every loose Democrat asshat firmly in line.

            It seems curiosity has killed the cat that had my tongue.

            by Murphoney on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 09:35:26 AM PDT

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            •  Oh, please. "Every loose Dem" firmly in line? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Whimsical

              Ben Nelson?  Joe Lieberman?  The whole pack of Blue Dogs in the House?

              One of the limits on Obama's performance, which too many writers here at DKos love to ignore, is that he has a very mixed quality group of Democrats in Congress.    The idea that if he just "showed leadership" he could whip them into shape is hollow.  The best thing we could do as progressives to move Obama to the left is simply to elect a more progressive Congress.  Wish it were easy. But, both now and after Obama, it's one of the key things we have to do.

              I do agree that unilateral bipartisanship, aimed at the likes of Cantor and Boehner, is not a viable strategy for getting the kind of legislation we want.  Appalling levels of compromise are sometimes necessary to pass what little we can get.  I think that dressing that process up as a search for bipartisan cooperation is aimed at the electorate, not the Republicans.  

              And it does carry weight, at least with women voters.  This is what I've heard consistently while blogging on political boards at big mom's sites.  Disappointment with what Obama has accomplished is often moderated by the statement that he's done the best he could, that he's tried to work with Republicans, that he cares more about getting something done than they do, etc.  

              I think sometimes Obama has bargained poorly.  Sometimes well.  But I really don't think he believes Boehner and Cantor will be his friends if he's nice to them.  He's not pushing bipartisanship to make nice .

              •  I'm totally with you on calling the RW Dems (0+ / 0-)

                on their behavior.  And yes, that happens way too little in Democratic circles.

                If not for them, we would not have been "shellacked" in 2010.  And yes, I mean that.

                Nowhere do I understand that national security is a substitute for the law.---Thomas Drake You cannot tell from appearances how things will go.--Winston Churchill

                by SouthernLiberalinMD on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 11:33:01 AM PDT

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              •  Every asshat; no one mentioned "making nice"... (0+ / 0-)

                that's leadership.

                Separately, I'm not sure when was the last time anyone tried calling Lieberman a Democrat

                It seems curiosity has killed the cat that had my tongue.

                by Murphoney on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 11:42:56 AM PDT

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          •  I've long wanted to see the kind of dialogue (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Grumpy Young Man

            that says "Look, this is the deal. The politicians have created a dysfunctional government. For a long time now, ordinary people simply complain about the system, complain about the politics, go through another election cycle, and it happens all over again. The politicians promise this and that to get elected, and history repeats.

            But here's your chance to change that. I'm offering you a bold plan, right now, one that is for real. It's so credible, so bold, so specific, that most politicians would never dream of presenting it as an election platform. Many of you will like some parts and dislike others; vote for it anyway. I want you to vote in 2012 to get the country moving forwards again and to break the dysfunction. That means you too, well-meaning republicans, even if you don't like a lot of the plan. Consider voting the get the country moving, because the real issue here is not economics or philosophy, it s broken government by selfish, small minded people.

            So when you vote, cast it for whoever supports this plan. I'll tell you this: in your lifetime, you'll probably never get another chance for a national vote on such a bold, specific plan... because no politician would dare propose it. Except for me, except for now.

            You want to break the dysfunction, here's your chance. If you decide to vote only as you usually would, playing tug-of-war again instead of giving something of yourself to engage in the spirit of cooperation and connection with others, that's of course your right. But when next you complain about the broken politics in the near, and distant, future, don't say you weren't given this chance to say to one another "Let's end this war and move forwards." Don't say you weren't given the chance to go beyond today's media spin and sound bites, and get something done.  

            And then, as you say, "And ask the American people which way they want the country to go."

             

          •  i have been on the Hill (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Murphoney, jts327

            and it should have been clear to Obama from around Fall '09 that his serious efforts to get things done were going to fail because the Republicans had decided to oppose him at every turn.

            Once that kind of rigid, partisan Realpolitik greets you, you can either keep trying to inhabit a kinder world, knowing you will get nowhere, or you can fight back by taking stands and showing people why progress isn't being made.

            He chose the former.  Hasn't done him or anyone much good.

            Nowhere do I understand that national security is a substitute for the law.---Thomas Drake You cannot tell from appearances how things will go.--Winston Churchill

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 11:31:19 AM PDT

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        •  Yes, of course it is, and it's one that incumbent (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TomP, Deep Texan, Grumpy Young Man

          and new Dem candidates can run on because it's what the public wants to hear

          IF. IF Dem incumbents and challengers are paying attention -- they damned well didn't in 2010 and lost their asses as well as the majority.

          ...as Pelosi can confirm

          "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

          by Sybil Liberty on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 08:58:33 AM PDT

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      •  And make it the cetnerpiece of (6+ / 0-)

        the election.

        An election clearly about policy.

        The American people must wise up and rise up!

        by TomP on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 08:04:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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