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View Diary: What "SpeechDate" Really Shows (362 comments)

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    •  correct (9+ / 0-)

      more and better dems.  screaming at the president for doing the only thing possible given the current circumstances isn't helpful.

      •  Since he hasn't tried any other methods (12+ / 0-)

        how do we know what's possible. If your operating assumption is that you have no chance of success, then failure is inevitable

        Republican tears sustain me.

        by orson on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 10:05:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What other methods? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Deep Texan, science nerd
        •  seriously what other methods? (0+ / 0-)

          because the only one that would work is blackmail!

          •  Seriously? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aliasalias

            You can't imagine any way things could have been handled differently on issues ranging from the initial stimlus and handling Joe lieberman to this weeks mini-debacle? That seems to be the administraton's problem as well. They just can't figure out how they might have done things differently.

            Republican tears sustain me.

            by orson on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 11:32:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  like how? (0+ / 0-)

              how are you going to get republicans on board?

              can you think of anything?

              •  I can't write a prescription (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                tomephil, Badabing, bronte17, mdmslle

                that will magically solve the Preaiden't problems, but I know one thing: if you want people to follow you, you have to know where you're going and you have to project that with certainty and clarity. Part of the reason Obama got elected was because he had a great personal story to tell. Since the election, the story line has disappeared. This administration has had no story to tell. His most ardent adherents would have a hard time explaining what he wants; where he wants to lead the country. He needs clear objectives, a story line that explains them and a plan to carry them out.  Like the Big Dog used to say, where there is no vision, the people perish.

                Republican tears sustain me.

                by orson on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 11:53:49 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  everything at this point isn't about (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gailwax, jts327

                getting republicans on board, Deep Texan.

                let's say your kid has a couple bullies at school who hound him everyday. And lets say one day your kid and his friend are walking home from school and the bullies try to beat up your kid. When one of your kid's friends steps in to try to stop the fight and defend your kid, he gets punched and gets himself a black eye. Once the friend is "knocked out of the fight" by the bullies, they proceed to finish pummeling your kid.

                Do you think your kid would hate his friend for sticking up for him, even though he lost the fight and ended up getting beaten up anyway?

                Probably not.

                One of the things this president can be doing is using his extraordinary skills to "make a show of" the fight for the middle class. To make a show that he's TRYING to get congress to pass legislation to keep people in their homes, for example. And make a show of the republican's blocking it. To make a show of a BIG BOLD jobs bill. And a SHOW of the republicans squashing it. To make a SHOW of tax increases for millionaires and billionaires. And a SHOW of the republicans rejection of it.

                To make a SHOW of the very predictable and disgusting and consistent GOP tactic of saying NO and protecting the rich at the expense of the poor.

                Will it get the GOP "on board"? We all know there's no way on earth to do that. But we don't have to. It's about who's fighting for ME and YOU and REGULAR AMERICANS. And just like the scenario above, even if the president gets beat up trying to defend ME (and you and all middle class, non-uber rich americans), we won;t hold it against him. In fact, we'll love him even more.

                do you see that?

                It's the difference between losing a fight and refusing one. (h/t Kossack james richardson)

                by mdmslle on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 01:08:21 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  it's about legislation (0+ / 0-)

                  so yes it's all about getting republicans and some Dems onboard.

                  •  It's not about legislation deep Texan. (0+ / 0-)

                    you already said we will not get the GOP on board. We all already know this.

                    The only thing left, with that being the absolute case, is the politics of it. Public position and public perception. There IS no way to get republicans on board, as you very astutely note.

                    So if that's the case, the only thing left is to at least appear to be fighting for the majority of Americans and letting the American public shoot it down over and over and over.

                    That's all we have left, my dear, until after the election.

                    It's the difference between losing a fight and refusing one. (h/t Kossack james richardson)

                    by mdmslle on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 02:47:00 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Correction: letting the American public see the (0+ / 0-)

                    gop shooting it down over and over and over again.

                    If you honestly believe that this president can get any GOP buy in on anything, when he hasn't since 1/20/09 (and it's gotten even worse since then, which is astounding in itself), then you're delusional. The president will get zero and no from republicans as he has since he took office. Hell, he can't even get his federal judges appointed! They will not do anything with him legislatively. Not even when it's a republican policy! They proved that during the "debt ceiling" debate. No matter what he says, they are not coming on board. I hope he decides not to spend another 15 months trying or we and this country are going to be facing texas' "favorite guy" Rick Perry for president.

                    It's the difference between losing a fight and refusing one. (h/t Kossack james richardson)

                    by mdmslle on Thu Sep 01, 2011 at 02:53:12 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  They who? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Deep Texan

              The president, his administration, Congressional Democrats?

              Who?

              Uh, cuz, y'know, he ain't a dictator, no matter what Tea Partiers like to claim.

    •  Recommended because Democrats are good guys... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomP

      Which means we are still totally unable to anticipate what bad guys are willing to do since we just don't THINK like them!

      And I'm proud of that fact.

      "Get it in writing." So true. But if you didn't, because you couldn't imagine them using it as an excuse to dis you, then what? Turn into one of them?

      No. We don't become them. The facts are on our side. Let's just keep arguing the fax. If we stoop to their lows, we will be no better than they, which means we'll be equally undeserving of independents' support.

    •  If the solution is to abandon your supporters and (0+ / 0-)

      kiss Republican ass that's fine with me.

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