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View Diary: Mission accomplished: Tea party Republicans took the economy hostage and killed job growth (186 comments)

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  •  Takes two to tango. (21+ / 0-)

    Someone negotiated with the terrorists.

    Obama is "a good man" to many democrats like Bush was "a good man" to republicans.

    by The Dead Man on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 09:47:43 AM PDT

    •  Baloney. (4+ / 3-)

      Yeah, I've you'd had your way, we'd be in a second Great Depression right now.

      The good news is that the Republicans have pretty much shot their wad. And nobody knows whether the economy is going to recover or drop back into a double-dip. I'd say there's a good chance that it'll recover, better than 50-50.

      But unless defeatists like you stop attacking the good guys, it won't be worth a hill of beans, and we'll have GW Bush II to contend with, or worse.

      You and people like you need to seriously get your heads out of your rear sphincters....

    •  Bullshit (5+ / 0-)

      What an incredibly stupid talking point that is taken as gospel around here.

      In the real world, Republicans exist. In fact, in that world they control the US House which gives them the ability to block any legislation proposed by Democrats.

      In magic fairy liberal progressive land, there are no Republicans and Obama and Democrats can just waive their wand and pass legislation or better yet force Republicans to support legislation that benefits the majority of the country as opposed to their 2% constituency.

      Call them all the silly names you want, but they are the majority and in a position of control and in a Democracy they HAVE to be negotiated with.

      •  That is simply defeatism (3+ / 0-)

        They could fight.  They'll lose a lot of fights, but they'd win something far more valuable.  And will eventually win more often.

        Republicans learned this lesson long ago.  Democrats have forgotten this lesson.

        Obama is "a good man" to many democrats like Bush was "a good man" to republicans.

        by The Dead Man on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 10:30:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Obama caved on Bush Tax Cuts and... (0+ / 0-)

          his approval rebounded for six months.  Either voters liked the caving (maybe) or they liked the tax cuts (likely).  

          Obama held the line on the debt ceiling for five months, and his approval nosedived.

          Come later this fall, when the Super Congress recommends a plan that makes the Bush Tax Cuts permanent under another name (among other conservative priorities), Obama will sign on without a fight.

          Judging by the above, it might just save his presidency.  What that means for the country,...that's another story.

          •  There are many other things going on than just (0+ / 0-)

            the tax cuts that affect his approval ratings.  You leave out things like the results of the wars (including killing Bin Laden), the strength of things like the stimulus, unemployment figures, the stock market, and on and on.  You shouldn't be saying the one and only thing affecting his popularity is his stance on two issues.

      •  There is another reason the GOP is in control (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        megwright, eps62, JC from IA, Creosote

        It's because they don't give a shit about the American people. The have proven time and again that they will throw all of us over a cliff to get what they want. You can't negotiate with sociopaths.

        A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward.- Franklin D. Roosevelt

        by shoeless on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 10:36:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  2/3 of the parties (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kurt

        involved are led by people with a D after their name. They were all 3 for two years. They are complicit or ineffectual. They are not helpless victims.

    •  you are assuming (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sacto Joe

      that merely discussing govt shutdown led to a slowdown in hiring, at the time it was happening?  The fact is even the debt ceiling deal doesn't touch spending until after the election.  This is truly awful econometrics.  

      The job picture is still a function of the hole the administration came in with, and not "negotiating" might have led to things like zero stimulus, a cut-off of unemployment benefits, no middle class tax cut extensions, various tax credits not being enacted, and a default on the federal debt.

      To recap -- the republicans are absurd, but today's job numbers very likely have nothing to do with republican negotiating tactics.  They'll probably be reflected in jobs numbers as you get closer to 2012/13.  What is reflected are things like sins of omission, but the numbers are only as good as they are because of effective negotiations.

      "This world demands the qualities of youth: not a time of life but a state of mind[.]" -- Robert F. Kennedy

      by Loge on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 10:58:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Correct. (0+ / 0-)

        This has nothing to do with Democratic or Republican negotiations. The spending cuts were delayed till after 2012. It's nice imaging and spin, but economically speaking, most likely, the stimulus has worn off in a sense.

        The funny thing is, the Federal Reserve has more power over the economy than the Congress of the United States, in some key contexts.

        I should point out we're not in a recession - just very sluggish growth that is projected by the CBO to bring unemployment down to around 8.5% by Election Day 2012.

        The best way to recovery is to hope that enough people retire in some comfort to allow the younger generation to be employed. In a nutshell, you have to hope the markets are steady enough and grow enough to allow retirements to occur. (That was kind of a jumbled thought but you get what I'm trying to say).

        Been reading Daily Kos since 2003. Pleased to meet you.

        by TheModerateAmerican on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 11:42:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  No. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sacto Joe, kurt

        The current job picture is a function of the Powers that Be sitting on their capital trying to drive up voter discontent and force Obama and more Dems from office.  That has been their sole objective since they stabilized the markets and the financial institutions in 2009.  

        When they accomplish that, they'll start spending (ah,...investing) again, creat a new bubble, and we'll come out of the recession.  What we'll come out to, now that I can't tell you.

        •  the House Republicans are sitting on (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ColoTim

          capital?  I thought they are always talking about being short of money to pay child support.

          By the way, you just endorsed supply side economics and don't even know it.  The only thing that could get them to lend is either interest rates at nil or demand.  Interest rates at nil already happened.  We still don't have enough demand, but it's not because the GOP oppened their mouths in May.

          "This world demands the qualities of youth: not a time of life but a state of mind[.]" -- Robert F. Kennedy

          by Loge on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 12:14:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You're almost right, rmp690 (0+ / 0-)

          Loge is right. The job picture is indeed "a function of the hole the administration came in with", because the current job picture is not "a function of the Powers that Be sitting on their capital" - it's a function of them sitting on the taxpayer's capital.

          The Republicans have done everything possible to sandbag the recovery (and the results of the last election shows why; they can "sell" the hooples on the idea that it's the Dems' fault). Infrastructure spending would have done an enormous amount of good, but that's been curtailed by the Party of No - on purpose. Why does Cantor want to force repairs from hurricane Irene to be paid for with government cuts? Because it's a form of infrastructure spending, and hence would stimulate the economy.

          However, as soon as they have power, I guarantee you that the Republicans will open the purse strings - and then claim that it was only because they got in office that the Great Recession ended (and once again, the hooples will go along with them).

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