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View Diary: My Mind Was Blown By What I Witnessed Last Night – Come See It With Me (294 comments)

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  •  Do (11+ / 0-)

    Palestinians get to carry a big stick too?

    After all they are actually occupied and imprisoned and have been in that situation for generations.

    I mean can you imagine people whose grandparents were born into occupation, their parents were raised in occupation, and they themselves are coming of age under occupation.  

    Do Palestinians get to carry a big stick too? or is that only for Israel.

    •  They are carrying a big stick (0+ / 0-)

      But if you're proposing universal disarmament throughout the middle east, I'm all for it.  Enforcement might be tricky

      Founder Math and Statistics Geeks . Statistics for progressives

      by plf515 on Mon Sep 05, 2011 at 06:23:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  What (4+ / 0-)

      What makes me think you are thinking that the 'occupation' began in 1948 rather than 1967 based on your timeline?

    •  I owe you a longer reply I think (6+ / 0-)

      because although we disagree on some things, you are always thoughtful.

      The size of a stick that any country or group of people gets to carry is determined by forces outside your or my control, and not by any notion of 'right' or 'wrong'. The question of what is a just or right or proper amount for each group is interesting to discuss, but largely irrelevant.

      Countries with weapons sell weapons to countries or groups with money.  It isn't nice, but it isn't going to stop any time soon.

      Instead, I think it more important to the peace process to describe what can be done.

      Israel now carries a bigger stick than the Palestinians do. The Palestinians (many of them, anyway) wish to own a bigger stick. Hamas certainly does. They will buy that stick from someone who will sell it to them.

      How can we (Americans, Israelis, Palestinians, other Arabs or anyone of good will) work towards making sure that no one uses their sticks to hit anyone?

      The first step, for Israel, is to speak more softly. It is for them to begin the softening of tone, precisely because it is they who have the bigger stick. Not so much because it is right, or just, or proper (although it is those things) but because it is the best way for Israel to develop secure borders and good relations with its neighbors.  

      Someone has to stop yelling first. I think it ought be the Israelis.

      The following steps are more mutual: To work so that the moderates of all countries and groups are in control, and so that the people in all those places realize that peace and even friendship is in everyone's interest.

      Shalom aleichem is also shalom aleynu.

      (for anyone reading along who doesn't understand that, "peace unto you is also peace unto us".  "Shalom aleynu" is a common phrase in Hebrew, as is "Salaam aleikum" in Arabic.

      Founder Math and Statistics Geeks . Statistics for progressives

      by plf515 on Mon Sep 05, 2011 at 06:48:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  BTW (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        and OT.

        I sent an message to another Jewish academic here, who I know and think that it's important that you become aware.

        There  seems to be people who are looking to start up a Jewish v Arab fight on dailykos. Like we used to have in the 80's at Tel-Aviv university. It was stupid then, and it is stupid now.

        I don't want that. Aside from not having enough Arabs here for it, it simply doesn't make sense given our proximity to a Palestinian Israeli solution and given the Arab revolutions that are ongoing. It also simply plays to stereotypes of anti-Arab bullying in the US.

        No one will come out a winner and I'm not keen on involvement in ethnic based arguments. But we won't put up with ethnic based bullying either.

        So if you have any influence, try and calm passions as a favor.

        •  Indeed (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MBNYC, Mets102, leftynyc, hikerbiker

          The I/P diaries here are infamous.

          I'm not sure I have any influence at all, but I'll do what I can.

          People can disagree without fighting. If it can't happen here on dkos, what chance is there in the wider world?

          Founder Math and Statistics Geeks . Statistics for progressives

          by plf515 on Tue Sep 06, 2011 at 02:45:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Actually (8+ / 0-)

            let me jump in here for a second.

            When simone daud, one of the most rancid, ethnocratic posters on this site, speaks of wanting to 'calm passions', he's doing so well aware that he's stirred quite a few of said passions simply by virtue of being a raging, bigoted, Palestinian ultra-nationalist. One who, coincidentally, has a better understanding of Judaism - and better Hebrew -  than some actual Jews, at least in his world. He got called out by Meteor Blades on more than one occasion for anti-Semitic remarks. Check the man's hidden comments; they're a veritable gold mine, except you won't find any gold, only troll stench.

            This comment by thebluecrayon lays out some of his greatest hits up until 10.24.2010. Since then, he's continued to revel in Jew/Nazi comparisons, which are expressly forbidden in Daily Kos I/P, not to mention morally squalid, reiterated his support for a notorious 9/11 truther, one Ken O'Keefe, and just to gild that particular lily, thrown in a bit of homophobia against the gay pro-Israel posters here, of whom I am one. I have a meeting later, otherwise, I'd lay that out in meticulous detail. But others can fill that particular gap, with ease.

            Of course, whenever he gets called on any of this - and there is so much more, believe me - he wails to the very heavens about being persecuted for being an Arab. It is simply not true. There is also no 'conspiracy' of the sort he alleges having a presence here, certainly not one linked to Pamela Geller and Jihad Watch. However, this is precisely what daud maintains. If I read him correctly, that 'conspiracy' consists exclusively of the pro-Israel Kossacks.

            You state, correctly, that the I/P diaries here are infamous. They are so in not inconsiderable part because of daud and his fact-free conspiracy rants. It is a source of amazement to me that he is still a member of this site in good standing, and frankly, it is thus because he has been handled by admin with velvet gloves.

            And if you check his last 'diary', he admits as much in so many words. I, for one, am sick of the airs of entitlement he gives himself, all the while playing the innocent victim to the credulous.

            It is my sincere hope that if or when admin moderation is reinstated, daud will be one of the first to get the axe. It boggles the mind that on a site dedicated to electing more and better Democrats, he is still allowed to spread his particular flavor of troll.

            Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

            by MBNYC on Tue Sep 06, 2011 at 12:52:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  BTW (6+ / 0-)

          comment above have now provided more than ample examples of your years terrible and racist behavior on this blog, Daud.

          Do you have the integrity to reply to any of this?  Or will you continue to take advantage of and mislead the lurkers who don't know your sordid and disgusting posting history?

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