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View Diary: Deep Background on Dominionism (181 comments)

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  •  Ok, to clarify a little: Pilgrims ≠ Puritans and (1+ / 0-)
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    neither were contemporaneous with High Church Anglicans. The Pilgrims came first and eventually gave rise to Unitarians. The Puritans were dissenters from the Anglican Church who did indeed think that everyone should believe as they did; I have an ancestor who was kicked out of the Bay Colony as an "anabaptist and blasphemer" because he didn't see the light of God in them and he wouldn't let them baptize his kids. He went off and helped found Providence. Many of these American Puritans eventually gave rise to what is now the Congregational Church.

    "High Church" Anglicans don't really appear until the nineteenth century and the [ Movement].

    Btw I also had three ancestors among the Pilgrims.

    Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

    by Wee Mama on Mon Sep 05, 2011 at 06:33:14 PM PDT

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    •  Well lets not confuse terms and realities (0+ / 0-)

      I would draw a direct line between High Church Anglicanism and Henry VIII's assertion that he was 'Protector of the Faith' in direct opposition to Papal authority. From that time on you had Dissenters from the Church of England to greater and lessor degrees but what was left over was after some to's and fro's among Henry's children and nephews was the Anglican Church as known today with its Archbishop of Canterbury etc. To claim that 'High Church Anglicans' only appeared in the nineteenth century is to ignore that the process was one of what your typical Anglican Bishop or Archbishop might have seen as purification if anything as various dissenting sects fell away from the Reformed Church to form various sects and what became known as Low Church Chapels. People who know more than me might be able to draw conclusions about how High Church Anglicanism itself became a conscious identity as a result of the Oxford Movement of the 19th century but still I find it a bit of a stretch that the higher reaches of the Anglican Episcopacy actually fell that far from the Apostolic Tree in the interim.

      Then again apart from casual readings what I know about Anglo-Catholicism and Cardinal Newman etc could be engraved on the head of a pin.

      And if anything my understanding of the rise of Unitarianism from Pilgrimism is even more scanty. Though a quick Google gave me this:

      So I would have a hard time identifying Congregationalists with Unitarians on a strictly theological basis. Seems to me that those notions cross cut a lot, though obviously I have a lot to learn on this I don't see that Congregationalists as such rejected Trinitarianism outright.

      Then again I am a historian by training and who personally  pretty much meets the traditional definition of 'Unchurched' or worse. If any of these folks beliefs are correct I am destined for a likely really sucky afterlife. (Though I guess in theory you could be an Elect without knowing it, I am thinking hitting the PowerBall has better odds.)

      And boy did this comment ramble. Sheesh.

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      by Bruce Webb on Mon Sep 05, 2011 at 09:49:17 PM PDT

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      •  Well the English church after Henry was both (1+ / 0-)
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        Bruce Webb

        catholic and protestant, with different weights on those two concepts at different times and for different peoples. The Anglican Church was a great mother to other churches, giving rise as it might be said to Methodists, Quakers, Baptists, Congregationalists and a few more as various dissenters solidified their views and separated themselves. Congregationalists are definitely not unitarians; one concept has to do with church governance and the other with the theology of God and Jesus. The presence of a catholic strand in the Anglican experience was always there; High Church as a term was in contrast to the more evangelical strands.

        I happen to be an Episcopal priest so I can go into lots more detail if wanted :-D

        Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

        by Wee Mama on Tue Sep 06, 2011 at 08:53:58 AM PDT

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