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View Diary: Anti-Capitalist Meet-Up: Corporations Are Dictatorships (136 comments)

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  •  Really (2+ / 0-)
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    FG, erush1345

    looking at Egypt today what I see is that they've replaced a personal dictatorship with a military junta. The problem is that things rarely work well in a vacuum, and "social movements" of these sort create vacuums that they rarely fill.

    We don't need to be emulating Egypt.  We should be looking at how labor groups created a voice in the workplace through co-determinaton and other efforts to create countervailing power within the firm.  And that is something you do with legislation instead of "revolution."

    http://www.economicpopulist.org

    by ManfromMiddletown on Sun Oct 02, 2011 at 03:21:39 PM PDT

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    •  That's treating the symptoms not the disease (6+ / 0-)

      Labor groups had this kind of codetermination, and good legislation was passed during the New Deal. But the dictators remained in power, and they got organized in the late 40s and 50s to undo the New Deal which they have been very successful at.

      So long as arbitrary power exists, it will continue to expand and  consolidate it's power.

      "Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of overcoming it" Helen Keller

      by Johnnythebandit on Sun Oct 02, 2011 at 03:45:57 PM PDT

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      •  Thanks for an excellent diary and pinpointing one (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Johnnythebandit

        of the major advantages of cooperatives.  I couldn't rec you in your tip jar since there was no "rec" button.  The thing I like best about coops, it that they are really build "from the ground up," so democracy is not determined by politicians whoi are all ready bought out by lobbyists.  If you want to do politics, you can have groups at your coops to determine, by consensus if you as a group want to apply pressure to the political structure to get certain laws your group might want -- some coops are now trying to blend coops and unions which is another interesting way to get the best of both in an economic- political structure.

    •  "Legislation" is controlled (5+ / 0-)

      Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan and GE and Comcast and Monsanto...etc.  It's a fantasy to believe that we can achieve anything like workplace democracy under the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.  We need to stop filling people's heads with reformist illusions.

      We should rid our ranks of all impotent thinking. All views that overestimate the strength of the enemy and underestimate the strength of the people are wrong. -- Mao Zedong

      by GiveNoQuarter on Sun Oct 02, 2011 at 04:12:41 PM PDT

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      •  Unions are just as in-system as coops in a (3+ / 0-)
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        NY brit expat, Johnnythebandit, TPau

        different way -- both are part of the capitalist system (unions negotiate just how much workers will go along with the bosses agenda to get more rights --coops, as individual private enterprizes, can develop capitalist profit oriented goals [though less likely than traditional corps];still both have tendencies which might promote revolutionary thinking and organizing in different ways.
        Revolution is just as liberal idealistic if one does not take into account the objective conditions in which one is trying to make change  -- you can stand on the corner all you want yelling "Revolution!" -- unless you have a plan to make it happen it is just a video game.  ]
        In the past, industrial unions were considered the most effective in-system vehicle for promoting revolutionary change -- however the mode of production (that old Marxist cannard) has changed from a centralized industrial type of economy to an electronically organized decentralized econonmy.  this type of economy doesn't have the large groups of workers working side by side developing solidarity as Marx envisioned.  If a workplace
        does organize, the company just moves it elsewhere, leaving large groups of unemployed.  Harvey discusses (as does the Lavaca collective)how this set of circumstance is particularly favorable to organizing workers in coops.
        Anyway, this is the type of analysis we have to do to see how we get to a revolution -- and tactics change when conditions change.

      •  if not "reformist illusions," then what? (0+ / 0-)

        It's long overdue to elucidate a clear and comprehensive set of values, goals, and means to achieve the goals.  

        And it's probably time to bring the "S-word" out of hiding.  

        "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Sun Oct 02, 2011 at 06:32:52 PM PDT

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