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View Diary: Anti-Capitalist Meet-Up: Corporations Are Dictatorships (136 comments)

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  •  Given that this is going on in supposedly (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TPau, tardis10, Utahrd, erush1345

    communist China, alternatives are apparently even worse.

    •  Not eating at all is apparently worse... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FG, tardis10, Johnnythebandit

      That is why I think the powers that be are trying to increase the desperation of the working class. They are jealous of China's desperate work force. So first they have to dismantle any and all social safety net and break down any remaining community cohesion.

      De air is de air. What can be done?

      by TPau on Sun Oct 02, 2011 at 05:27:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  There have been many abuses of workers (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TPau

      in China since they have liberalised their markets (there were probably abuses in China before them); I have heard other horror stories. Moreover, they are deliberately keeping wages low to produce goods for export; the lack of wage income and the lack of development of a true domestic market is seriously problematic. Why do you think that China is in any way communist or socialist to be more precise? It has abandoned all that for capitalist markets quite some time ago; it is doing it slowly as compared to Russia and Poland, but what it is a controlled capitalist system with some remnants of state planning and all the problems associated with capitalist economic systems?

      "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

      by NY brit expat on Sun Oct 02, 2011 at 05:35:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, your characterization of China is probably (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        erush1345

        correct. But the fact that they deliberately transitioned to it from state-controlled system shows that their previous system had serious problems.

        •  I know very little about the productiveness (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FG

          of China's previous system; I am far more familiar with central and eastern europe which I have read far more on. There are many reasons for transitioning and not all of them had to do with the inability to provide for the population, sometimes it is all about greed of the ruling classes and ideology rather than anything else and easier ways for them to become far richer than they could in the old system. Irrespective of that it has little to do with the discussion in this diary which is about worker democratic control of workplaces; discussing the former state capitalist countries as though that in some way defeats any idea of workers democracy is specious as you are literally discussing something that has nothing to do with what people are advocating. After a while, it is simply stale ...

          "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

          by NY brit expat on Sun Oct 02, 2011 at 06:01:07 PM PDT

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          •  I'm not arguing that workers actually controlled (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            erush1345

            workplaces in Mao China. It was very similar to eastern europe.

          •  alternately it's possible that China.... (0+ / 0-)

            .... is just going through a capitalist accumulation phase and will subsequently transition to overt socialism.  

            The leadership could simply give the present capitalists an offer they can't refuse, that boils down to this:  They get to keep their personal wealth as it presently stands, and they can keep managing their companies or they can retire with honors for their contributions to the new Chinese economy.  But the company will be owned by the state, its profits will accrue to the state, and if the present owners attempt to subvert that arrangement, they will get nothing.

            Most of them will choose to take the money and retire with dignity and with social status.  Those who raise a shitstorm will be prosecuted for one thing or another.  

            And China will have pulled off the amazing feat of accumulating capital, becoming the manufacturing center for the world, and then going full-on socialist with the prospect of universal economic security and whatever prosperity for the masses that can be provided.  

            That won't make the place a utopia, but it would certainly be a significant achievement.  

            "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

            by G2geek on Sun Oct 02, 2011 at 07:31:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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