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View Diary: Middle class families vs. big banks (246 comments)

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  •  It will remain unanswered (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fisheye, mrblifil

    so long as the troll accusation is unwithdrawn.

    We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another. -- Jonathan Swift

    by raptavio on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 06:40:38 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Given (0+ / 0-)

      The amount of asshattery that is perpetrated on this website by those that wish us to do exactly what is happening right now between us, I thought it would be obvious that I was standing up to protect the sanctity of the communication which is so vital for us to remain energized and effective.  Therefore, I withdraw the troll invective and invite you to explain yourself.

      "Life is too short for front-wheel drive." -Sabine Schmidt

      by nhox42 on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 09:18:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yves Smith (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        2laneIA

        So I'll fire this out anyway because too much time has elapsed between our original set of comments:  What are the reasons that you feel that Yves is less trustable than Elizabeth?  Both have been on the forefront of the bankster/foreclosure/backdoor bailout debacle from the beginning.  In this matter, we need all the help we can get.  Why throw down on one of our staunchest allies?
        Also, after doing some more investigation, I apologize for pulling out the Troll Cannon as quickly as I did.  I am used to, as I stated previously, battling the many asshats who seek to do us wrong.
        Peace,
        nhox42

        "Life is too short for front-wheel drive." -Sabine Schmidt

        by nhox42 on Thu Sep 08, 2011 at 09:45:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Because (0+ / 0-)

          Warren has had far more time to get to know the President and become intimately involved with his strategy than Yves has. It takes some serious chutzpah for someone who does not have that connection to state someone who does, and who has Ms. Warren's track record and credentials, has "deluded herself."

          Irrespective of Yves' own credentials and ideology, that is NOT the sort of statement I would place great faith in -- nor is the statement preceding it, which presumes to know the President's mind.

          We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another. -- Jonathan Swift

          by raptavio on Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 05:20:15 AM PDT

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          •  OK, (0+ / 0-)

            1. Thank you;
            2. This is where we have our difference of opinion, I believe.  In my experience, Ms Warren has never abrogated her responsibility to the American public to battle the forces who would take advantage of them (see her rough treatment from the time of the CPFB's creation, the refusal of the administration to battle for her to helm the office that she was instrumental in creating, and her treatment by sitting members of Congress in her testimony on same).  It is my opinion that she could have done much more as the head of that agency than anything that she will accomplish in the Senate (given of course that 1. she runs, and 2. she gets elected- both pretty substantial hurdles).  In her own way, Yves has been approaching the same issues with the same passion and intensity.  Yves and I share the view that the administration has  (though there have been victories along the way, DADT, etc.) left many important battles unfought (the prosecution of no one for the great financial meltdown of 2008 even when handed a Senate report that named names, times and dates of bad actors or the judicial confirmation backlog which has yet to be addressed) or worse, taken the position of the previous administration (Global War On Terror and our expansion of it), or worse than that, gone further down those roads that no truly progressive administration has any business being on (this administration's unbelievable increase in prosecution of whistleblowers over the actual perpetrators of the offenses-see the DOJ's 'prosecution' of Thomas Drake which was so inept that when it finally was to go to trial they abandoned all but one minor count of the charges- for me, that turned the whole operation into a use of state power to intimidate).  Therefore, I do not value the importance of being an 'insider' to this administration and having familiarity with it's strategy.  I think that the unswerving dedication of both of these women is absolutely admirable and we need to support both of them.  As to Yves comment about Elizabeth being 'deluded' as to the administration's support of her- look at what happened in her case in particular:  in ways, she is Moses kept from her Holy Land.  The thing that she invested so much time, effort, blood, sweat and tears creating is denied to the person who would be the most effective in it's use.  That, to me speaks volumes as to this administration's commitment to the 'little guy' so to speak.  I have never doubted hers or Yves.  I have doubted that of this administration.
            So, after that longwinded bit, that's why I jumped so hard when I saw your comment.  There are not enough people in the country right now with the means, the will and most importantly the visibility to change the public discourse to challenge the status quo and we need every one of them, Yves included.
            Peace,
            nhox42

            "Life is too short for front-wheel drive." -Sabine Schmidt

            by nhox42 on Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 07:10:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yet you have no problem (0+ / 0-)

              with Yves throwing Warren under the bus with those remarks?

              Your rant about Obama is one I could take a number of issues with for factual inaccuracy but given my aforementioned crankiness I'm not really willing to get into the weeds with you on this today. Suffice it to say that, on this issue, Elizabeth Warren's judgment has earned my trust.

              We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another. -- Jonathan Swift

              by raptavio on Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 08:06:23 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So, (0+ / 0-)

                for the sake of you not feeling like it because you are 'cranky', you refuse to rebut any of the points in my post?  Weak sauce my friend, and frankly, trollish.  I give you respect for your body of work on this site but in this case, fail.  
                Peace,
                nhox42

                "Life is too short for front-wheel drive." -Sabine Schmidt

                by nhox42 on Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 09:06:08 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Okay. (0+ / 0-)

                  I trusted your apology was sincere.

                  For the high crime of declining to engage you on the multiple new topics you've brought up rather than the one specific one upon which I engaged you, you call me a troll?

                  Clearly, my own trust was misplaced and I've wasted my time.

                  End of line.

                  We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another. -- Jonathan Swift

                  by raptavio on Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 09:09:41 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The apology was sincere (0+ / 0-)

                    The points raised were designed to show the difference between this administration's rhetoric and it's actions, supporting Yves' statement that Elizabeth had a misplaced faith that they would do what they said they would.  Your answer of "You're wrong but I'm not going to tell you why" was at least as disrespectful as the initial call of troll (which was knee jerk, wrong and I again apologize for that) and in no way advanced the discussion.  I come here to learn, not be casually dismissed.  In addition, please learn the difference between noting that someone's actions could be considered 'trollish' and actually calling someone a troll.
                    Peace,
                    Clint.

                    "Life is too short for front-wheel drive." -Sabine Schmidt

                    by nhox42 on Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 10:06:29 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I'm in the weirdest position of agreeing with (0+ / 0-)

                      neither side in this argument.

                      Think it's time for me to go!  

                      Nowhere do I understand that national security is a substitute for the law.---Thomas Drake You cannot tell from appearances how things will go.--Winston Churchill

                      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Sep 11, 2011 at 09:47:58 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  but no matter where Elizabeth is in the government (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              laserhaas

              she's going to be subjected to the same forces Yves is talking about.

              and she's not going to be appointed to head an agency as long as the Senate is composed as it currently is.

              So, back to my question from upstream in this thread:  are we ceasing to elect progressives?  which is another way of asking, are we ceasing to rely on elections?

              if so, this is a damned scary day, but let me know, and we can talk about next steps.

              I sure hope this isn't that day.

              Nowhere do I understand that national security is a substitute for the law.---Thomas Drake You cannot tell from appearances how things will go.--Winston Churchill

              by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Sep 11, 2011 at 09:47:00 AM PDT

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        •  also, (0+ / 0-)

          ordinarily I'd be a bit more gracious about a sincere apology than I was, but I'm a little grumpy this morning, so forgive my bypassing that completely.

          We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another. -- Jonathan Swift

          by raptavio on Fri Sep 09, 2011 at 05:25:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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