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View Diary: We're Getting What We Wanted From The President Now: A Fight (316 comments)

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  •  Yes--it is a modest package, but given that it IS (48+ / 0-)

    a modest package as it is, the President and his team are right in pushing for the Republicans to pass the whole thing.

    President Obama has gone far and above in trying to work with the Republicans as fellow colleagues and honest brokers (and he should say so on camera--often). It's past time for the Republicans to finally BE the honest brokers that they've been treated as for the past three years, and pass the entire package.

    •  It's better for them to pass the whole package (10+ / 0-)

      If they break it up, and the economy doesn't meet expectations, the President can blame them for piece-mealing it.

      If they pass it whole, the Republicans can say that they gave the President the Stimulus II he wanted, but it still didn't work.

      Critical Thinking: The Other National Deficit.

      by cultjake on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 08:22:26 AM PDT

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      •  StimulusI was successful - (16+ / 0-)

        creating and saving millions of jobs as projected - but Fox & Frightwing radio and Republicans have successfully indoctrinated the public to believe it failed.
        Yes, it failed to magically re-create the millions of jobs lost during the Bush Error and during the continuation of Bush's Great Recession after Obama's inauguration.

        But considering Republicans' "No!" votes on every bill since Jan. 2009 to improve the economy  - it's obvious the economy would be much worse if McCain & Repubs had been in charge.

        The GOP says -- "firefighters are thugs!"

        by MartyM on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 08:43:54 AM PDT

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        •  So true, but so above the heads of most; (13+ / 0-)

          No one ever makes headlines for the disaster avoided, the "unknowable what would have happened if not for" and that is sad but universally true.

          Just increases the importance of supporting the administration in standing completely firm on this and not give an inch.  Put the heat on them and don't let go.

          "How can the United States be the Greatest Nation ever if it is the only modern nation where citizens hold bake sales to pay for life saving medical care?" Single payer is coming but how many people will die before it becomes the only solution?

          by 4CasandChlo on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 08:48:42 AM PDT

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          •  except in Adventure Iraq (3+ / 0-)

            but that major crime gets exceptions in lots of categories.

            Class war has consequences, and we are living them.

            by kamarvt on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:05:10 AM PDT

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            •  $447 billion jobs bill of which: (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              venger, NoMoreLies, boofdah

              nearly $180 billion merely replaces the current payroll tax cuts and unemployment benefits extension costs of $112 billion and $56.5 billion, respectively.

              And $25 billion will replace a similar amount of deficit reduction in 2012 as a result of the Budget Control Act of 2011 ($25 billion in spending cuts in 2012 even though the overall multitrillion deficit reduction is back-loaded).

              So what we have left is approximate $250 billion in new spending paid for by an increase in tax cuts on the wealthy (primarily through elimination of tax loopholes).

              The Rethugs may agree to payroll tax reductions on individuals and small businesses (since they have been proposing these reduction for a long time to weaken the the direct connection between direct SS contribution to benefits - and thus bringing SS one step closer to being a type of welfare program instead of insurance program), and may agree to some extension of unemployment comp. The rest of Obama's proposals are, for the most part, DOA.

              So that leaves approx. $250 billion in payroll tax reductions and extension of UE (i.e., only $50 billion in new spending in 2012 compared to 2011)

              Obama's proposing to pay for his jobs programs by increases in taxes on the wealthy are, of course, also DOA. The Rethugs will demand further spending cuts to pay for Obama's jobs program, and will, most likely, succeed in getting Obama's/Democrats acquiesence.

              Thus there will be no new stimulus in 2012 compared to 2011, and no boost to jobs and an economy that has only grown by 0.7% in the first six months of 2012.

              Thus onto the election in Nov. 2012. But in the meantime the US, European, and world economy will very likely tank and go into another deep recession in the next few months, due to Europe's sovereign debt crisis, and the continuing de-leveraging of American consumers, who are unemployed, underemployed, underpaid, and underwater,

               

        •  Rethug candidates on fake debate allowed to (6+ / 0-)

          say that the stimulus did not create ONE job and that it FAILED--and Wolf stands there bobbing his head yes.

          "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan - 1980

          by livjack on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 09:29:46 AM PDT

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        •  it was a success if the goal was to prevent (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TomP, Little, boofdah

          increased bleeding.  It did the best it could do.  So did QE2.  But the problems of the economy are way way above the pay grades of both measures.  

          As politics it has been a failure mostly because yeah you're trying to prove a negative.  Also - when the administration gets the stimulus out the door, does not acknowledge that it is about 30% of the solution (if that) and pivots away from jobs for an unusually long time ... it's hard to blame Main Street for feeling like folks live in a different solar system.

          •  well, they *do* live in a different solar system (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sk7326, venger, angstall

            and you know, if the stimulus took us from hemorrhaging 350,000 jobs/quarter to 35,000 jobs/quarter, I'm glad about that

            but yeah, the lack of follow-up policy and what I think amounts to a kind of bad faith from the Administration "Hey, look, we tried Keynesianism, it didn't work!" does help the Republicans with their talking points.

            Nowhere do I understand that national security is a substitute for the law.---Thomas Drake You cannot tell from appearances how things will go.--Winston Churchill

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 11:59:01 AM PDT

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            •  I am happy for the stimulus - except that in the (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SouthernLiberalinMD

              post stimulus world, one gets the sense that the administration was totally out to lunch on the underlying economics of it.  That is - it sounded like they thought the stimulus was the solution, and not the band-aid that we all seemed to recognize that it was.  As a band-aid it was great ... but it wasn't a reason to say the patient is cured - time to do something else.

              I think we basically agree here ... I just was annoyed that the White House seemed to have much more faith in the stimulus' capability than any sane person (even one who appreciated the stimulus) could have mustered up.

        •  Stimulus I (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TomP, MartyM

          The problem was that the economy was worse than even they believed and they foolishly promised that passage of the bill would keep unemployment under 8%.  Of course Stimulus I worked, it kept 100000's of pesons employed who otherwise would have hit the unemployment lines-but predicting the future is best left to ouija boards.

        •  why do people keep circulating (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ClutchCargo, MartyM, grrr

          the idea that it failed

          it succeeded as best as it could given how small it was and how many tax cuts were in it--and given the disastrous economic circumstances.

          Nowhere do I understand that national security is a substitute for the law.---Thomas Drake You cannot tell from appearances how things will go.--Winston Churchill

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 11:56:01 AM PDT

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      •  Yeah, but they're Neocons. n/t (0+ / 0-)
    •  And IMHO (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sue B, viet vet, thomask, venger

      that's why he's gone so far in attempting to work with the GOP.

      If you don't show you're willing to compromise, it's not seen as taking a stand.

      It's seen as being obstinate. Or an obstacle. Or just ideological. Or political. Or something.

      Can you imagine how it would have been spun if he'd been this resolute from the beginning? It would have been 'he won't listen to our ideas' and 'he's not willing to compromise' and 'you haven't tried our ideas, how do you know they won't work?'

      Well, he's been listening to them. And compromising. And we've tried their ideas.

      Time to try Obama's ideas for a change.

      The public thinks so too. And if he'd started out this way, they wouldn't.

      •  No, he had nothing to force the GOP to give ground (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SouthernLiberalinMD, grrr

        When you go in giving neocons half of what they want to start and then offer to negotiate they've had no reason to do much beyond wait for Obama to give up more. There was no case for strong liberalism because he negotiated on their terms not ours. He was not fully presenting our ideas and positions.

        Even now I hope there are parts of this bill (raising taxes on wealth) which are non-negotiable on pragmatism and principle. Make the GOP explain in detail why they they don't support an alternative approach when theirs failed over the last decade.

      •  no, that's entirely wrong (6+ / 0-)

        Look, when he went in, America was completely freaking sick of Republican ideas and wanted his.  That's why Republicans got thrown out of office from sea to shining sea and Obama had a near 70% popularity rate.

        That was the time to make his case, when the population was awake and on his side and had strong faith in him.  

        It was not the time to make sure everybody knew he was willing to compromise.  They didn't elect him to compromise.  The campaign slogan was not "COMPROMISE" it was "CHANGE."  

        People said what they wanted and he gave them something else.

        Let's see if he can make this pivot work.

        Nowhere do I understand that national security is a substitute for the law.---Thomas Drake You cannot tell from appearances how things will go.--Winston Churchill

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 12:02:23 PM PDT

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    •  President Obama doesn't need any more (5+ / 0-)

      partial victories.  He needs to fight for something meaningful and win for a change...

      He's in a very bad position at this point in his re-election campaign.  If he really is interested in winning in 2012, he needs to take Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid off the table and make it very clear that he is not going to touch those programs.  He needs to take to the bully pulpit and hammer the message to the nation that this financial disaster was created by the people on Wall Street, and that he is going to stop punishing the victims and go after the real criminals.  And he needs to start arresting them now.  

      He needs to purge his administration of all republicans and then replace them with real democrats...not republican lite democrats.  He has to draw a very clear distinction between his administration and the cesspool that calls itself the republican party.

      He needs to break his ties to big money...

      ...and he needs to start fulfilling the promises he made to the American people to change the corruption in D.C.

      He needs to take BP to court and force them to really clean up the mess in the gulf and then he needs to reverse his decision about the ozone and he needs to veto the tar sands pipeline...

      He needs to bring our troops home.

      When he does those things, then I'll consider supporting him in 2012...otherwise, everything he does is just for show, and I'm through believing in that.

      He gambled his re-election on the mushy middle, but now they are deserting him in droves...that means his only hope for re-election is to motivate the base and that is a dead-ender unless he starts reversing the damage he has done.

      •  mushy middle doesn't like his supposedly "mushy (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        praenomen

        middle" policies

        don't like the economy either

        If he did even part of what you propose, it would go a long way to helping his re-election bid.

        I wouldn't expect all of it, but even part of it would do wonders.

        Nowhere do I understand that national security is a substitute for the law.---Thomas Drake You cannot tell from appearances how things will go.--Winston Churchill

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Sep 13, 2011 at 12:03:57 PM PDT

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