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View Diary: Is Sharon Slater asking Mormons to use LDS ward lists to promote her anti-LGBT agenda? (15 comments)

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  •  Respect and tolerance of religions and religious (7+ / 0-)

    diverseity are core American, Democratic, and progressive principles.

    However, when religious parties choose to push their religions into the public political arena, and/or use religious assets, infrastructure, membership lists etc, for polical causes they give up, in part, their right to claim discrimination, and abuse when the expectable political backlash occurs.

    After the GLBT responded to the Mormon churhes support for Proposition 8 in California, some complained of "anti-Mormonisn," but those complainst are not valid.  

    Similarly, when the Catholic church engages in political campaigns with regard to abortion, it simultaneously legitmizes a response.

    And, if the Church, refuses to cooperate with civil inestigations of pedophila and church rotations of priests, or shipping Cardinal Law to the Vatican out of reach of warrants, it can not complain that police and state Attorney General are anti-Catholism.

    This has been one of my lessons and insights from our recent community moderation discussion, banning, punishments, and boycotts.

    We all should be extra cautious of mixing aggressive political discourse with accusations of "-isms," and use, and abuse of the HR, and community moderation systems to counter political opionions we disagree with.

    When we mix controversial and aggessive political expression with accusations of religous  intolerance, hate speech, or "-isms," both politics and religions tend to suffer in the long-term.

    This isn't at all to say that those with strong political beliefs can not be bigots, and "anti-xxxxx."  Just that those countering might be wisest to choose one, angle or the other as their counter-attack and leave it too others to do the other.

    So, if you main passion in life is political and ideological warfare, why not leave the community moderation and HR campaigns to others.

    Likewise if commuity moderation and protecting various groups from bigots and hate speech is your main passion than leave taking the lead on political campaingning to others.

    But, the more important lesson, here, is if you do not wish your religion to be the brunt of political push-back from the wider community do not voluntarily use your religion, church, and its assets, infrastructure, pulpits, and other connections to propagate political battles.

    And, when the push-back, and counter-attacks comes do not expect as much sympathy if you then cry "anti-_" and ask for help.

    Those who engage in political attacks must accept a much higher bar and threshold criteria before the community will come to their aid for hate speech battles.

    The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

    by HoundDog on Tue Sep 20, 2011 at 07:49:55 AM PDT

    •  This. (7+ / 0-)

      I jumped into this discussion earlier over at the transgender forum on reddit, and as a former Mormon missionary, comments like these leave me feeling sad for my former belief community:

      You know, as an aside, I've met a lot of Mormons over the years, many of whom I like and deeply respect. When Katrina hit, the LDS Church did an incredible job providing relief which is something we all owe them a heartfelt thank you for. At the same time, all of that good will that was earned is effectively lost when this kind of closed-minded hatred is publicized without the church and the community officially distancing itself from radical actions like this.

      My sense is that, even after all the crap the institutional LDS church has dished out, most LGBT folks (and straight allies like myself) are still not interested in a scorched earth response, we just want the targeting to stop.

      •  This comment is worthy of a post Chino. (4+ / 0-)

        I grew up in a community that was about half Mormon, and have taught courses to the top administrator in Salt Lake.  

        I know many good people in the church.

        It's sad when a few loud and domineering voices besmirch and overshadow a whole community.

        Hang in there.

        The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

        by HoundDog on Tue Sep 20, 2011 at 09:02:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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