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View Diary: Officer in Kelly Thomas Murder: "Now, see my fists? They are getting ready to 'F' you up." (43 comments)

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  •  dancing with the stars? (3+ / 0-)

    keep her out of this one......

    •  Absolutely Not (7+ / 0-)

      Ms Grace is all about punishment before justice and when she was a DA almost certainly covered up midbehaving by LE.

      How this woman gets airtime is a sad reflection of the ignorance of the American public.
      ___

      Let me clarify my previous comment....DA should be filing both Murder 1 and Felony Murder. Let the jury decide. Filing Murder 2 only is chickenshit and politically expedient.

      Ruckauckas should be recalled if Murder 1 isn't filed. It's that legally obvious and simple.

      •  And it's even worse than that (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Horace Boothroyd III, JesseCW

        They also filed involuntary manslaughter. Yes, even for that one cop! Unless something has changed in the past couple days, IMS is still being charged. That means the jury can, if they want, convict him ONLY of that. How sick is THAT?

        "Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media." -- Noam Chomsky

        by ratmach on Fri Sep 23, 2011 at 04:53:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Under what theory would you charge (0+ / 0-)

        felony murder?

        Also, it would be quite a stretch to charge any of them with first degree murder -- wholly impossible as to anyone but Ramos on what we've seen so far. As I read it, first degree murder in CA requires an intent to kill, not just an intent to "F* him up." I think I'm on safe ground in saying that no Orange County jury is going to convict a cop of first degree murder on what we've seen. I'm happy to have a charging decision that might actually result in a conviction and jail time. (Not so sure about the non-charging of the other four, but if it results in truthful testimony, it's probably worth it.)

        •  Felony Murder (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          eyesoars, JesseCW

          Is the death of a victim during the commission of a felony. ADW, mayhem, etc are all felonies, and all the elements of said crimes are patently satisfied here.

          I may do my own diary on this later if I have time. It's really obvious to me.

          I'm kind of curious what the Register will have to say about this. Also remember, the victim was the son of an ex-cop. That's going to have some play here.

          •  You should. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Vinnie Vegas

            Preferably one with a title designed to draw out the criminal lawyers here (I'm not one), so we get some informed opinions. Outrage is easy; strategy is hard.

            ADW is not a predicate for felony murder in California. Mayhem is the only possible one, and probably only as to Ramos (again, on what we've seen/heard so far). I think it is a huge stretch, but you're not the first to suggest it and it's worth exploring. Obviously, the cops will claim -- as always -- that they just intended to get him to comply with their directions. The DA would have to prove that Ramos intended the beating to permanently disfigure Thomas. The threat to "F* you up" is the only bit of evidence I've seen to support that, and if that's all the DA's got, I'd be surprised if he could convict. I wouldn't risk a second-degree conviction for a first-degree long, long shot, but I'd like to hear what the criminal lawyers here think.  

            And yes, I'm sure the facts that Thomas' father is an ex-county sheriff, and white, and able to marshal community pressure, have played heavily in all of this in a number of ways. But a successful prosecution might have wider ranging effects that can help more marginalized potential brutality victims. Hope springs eternal, I guess. I look forward to your diary.

            •  Re PC 189 (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Villanova Rhodes, JesseCW

              I gave a common law definition of felony murder without looking up the CA Statute, which lists which crimes are Murder 1 and the remainder being Murder 2.

              As you correctly note, mayhem is one of the enumerated crimes, in theory it's a tossup, but given how badly DA's overcharge cases today, I think if the defendant were not a cop, they'd be filing Murder 1.

              Give me a couple of days, I'm game to analyze it. I still feel like Ramos was being done a favor here, but that's what DAs do, protect their cops.

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