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View Diary: updated:The Horror! EU proposes introducing Financial Transactions Taxes! (101 comments)

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  •  definitely does make it harder. but (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Euroliberal, Eric Nelson

    most exchanges go through brokers and banks and those can be monitored, they can also start demanding passport information of clients to see if they are avoiding taxation (sort of what they do when you are making a political donation) and force banks to tax them if they are avoiders. There are ways around the problem including charging those with tax avoidance. That will require international cooperation. Things would be much easier if the finance sector did not control the governments of the UK and US as this is an obvious policy for financial stabilisation and revenue generation. They should have moved earlier when Brown was in power in the UK as he supported them; dealing with the Tories will make this much harder. The tories will only be in power for 5 years, the UK can introduce them and join on after the fact if necessary. The main problem is the US, Geithner has opposed FTTs strongly as his masters do not want them introduced.

    "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

    by NY brit expat on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 11:05:21 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Just like many other industries (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NY brit expat

      the business of financial brokers is being seriously eroded by the internet. A tax differential would quicken that process. They will use that threat to oppose it. Even if it were implemented by all the major global economies, speculative traders would find ways around it. Without the cooperation of the US, it would be impossible.

      Look at the efforts of China to control the internet activity of its citizens. They find ways around it. You can certainly expect no less from the leading hedge funds.

      •  agreed to a large extent, but even the UK (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eric Nelson

        Stamp duty on shares (both paper and computer transactions) requires monitoring (http://www.direct.gov.uk/...) and the vast majority of trades are done through brokerages and banks. It is not as though tax avoidance and evasion have been stamped out in the modern era; this will require international cooperation. I do agree that it would be very important getting the US and UK (and Japan and Singapore) on board. But this is not an easy sell and quite honestly if the Dems will not do it in the US, what chance is there that the Repubs will do it? Abrogating the Greek debt would be an obvious solution and they have suggested that 50% should be abrogated, yet there has been no debt audit.

        "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

        by NY brit expat on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 11:22:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Brokerages and banks (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NY brit expat, DRo, Eric Nelson

          are no longer essential. Everybody who owns a smart phone has the ability to do it for themselves. The existing UK arrangements are limited in scope. They don't appear to apply to transactions by UK residents in international securities. That is where the big money is. What would likely happen is that it would be the small investor who pays the tax and the big fish would swim in international waters. So what else is new?

          I would question to volume of existing business that is routed through intermediary institutions. Are you talking about number of transactions or their financial size. The large traders are not paying commissions to somebody else.

          •  it is the small investors that do not use (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DRo, Eric Nelson

            brokerages and investment houses; this is aimed towards larger transactions rather small investors. I do think that you are right that small investors will get caught in the net while the bigger fish will avoid the traps.

            I also think that you are correct about the existing UK arrangements, that is what I thought and you are also correct that the big money is in international securities and it is those that they need to get the tax aimed at and that is a serious problem in the absence of the US, UK, Japan participation in the FTT.

            As far as I understood things (and I may be wrong) but really large investors still use various intermediaries for a number of reasons (including not having to do the work themselves) and quick movements in purchase and sale. This type of thing would clearly affect those using these intermediaries; the fear of being charged with tax evasion certainly does not have the majority quaking in their boots as of yet (hah, if only).

            "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

            by NY brit expat on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 11:39:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The big funds (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              NY brit expat

              don't use your traditional stock brokers. They setup captive organizations that are entirely under their control and they can and do set them up anywhere they find to be most advantageous. In practice their traders are sitting at a computer moving billions of whatevers around the globe at the speed of light with a few keystrokes.

              Hedge funds have become the 21st C counterparts of the pirates of the Caribbean. I am most certainly not celebrating their present status. I am simply making the argument that a serious effort to control them would have to be globally coordinated.

              •  I know that and I agree with you (0+ / 0-)

                they have worked very hard to set things up to cover their actions for quite a while. It is questionable whether it is viable in the absence of cooperation from the US and w/o the UK it is not viable in Europe let's be real as it is the UK and German markets that are the biggest. This is an instructive situation, the world economy is crashing, those that caused the initial crash are loath to bear any responsibility and have shifted their errors onto the poor, working class and middle classes. A small demand that they contribute to clean up their mess after tons of guarantees and bailouts is met with outright hysteria on their part.

                Interesting, the UK is now discussing resistance rather than outright veto; interesting. If the UK cooperates, even reluctantly, that will make it easier to implement and will also make it more viable. Watching the BBC is wonderful at the moment, the city is screaming in hysteria, would love to have that cartoon or animation of people running around screaming no to add just right now!

                "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

                by NY brit expat on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:14:57 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The UK is at a touchy spot (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  NY brit expat

                  in the history of the EU. They have basically been the dog in the manger since the days of the European Coal and Steel Community. They have tried to have the benefits of the common market with as few of the comittments and responsibilities as possible. In the immortal words of Baroness Maggie, "I want my money back!".

                  The future of the entire project is seriously at stake now. Perhaps Cammeron has second thoughts about appearing to wield the knife.

                  •  yep ... perhaps that is why they (0+ / 0-)

                    are tuning down the rhetoric a bit; now they are resisting rather than threatening veto ... only the hard right like people from UKIP are screaming revolt and some of the euroskeptics in the Tory party.

                    "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

                    by NY brit expat on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:55:02 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  Russian Banks (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                NY brit expat

                are very attractively priced and a modest contribution of rubles to Putin's war chest leaves them regulation free.

                 

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