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View Diary: updated:The Horror! EU proposes introducing Financial Transactions Taxes! (101 comments)

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  •  that is why the speculative investments (1+ / 0-)
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    Red Sox

    will of necessity decrease; the number of transactions will decrease, they expect these people to pack up shop and move out.

    "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

    by NY brit expat on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 11:24:21 AM PDT

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    •  Not if they have a means (3+ / 0-)
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      Red Sox, NY brit expat, erush1345

      of bypassing the tax.

      •  agreed, the need is to shut them down (0+ / 0-)

        totally on an international level; it is such a small tax and yet they will not even pay that, in many senses it is a perfect example of the grotesqueness of the wealthy that they refuse to even pay this tiny tax at all. Perhaps the fact that they are running around screaming like all their wealth is being torn out of their hands may help people see who the system serves and stop all the garbage that we are in this together; if nothing else, it proves the point the hard left has been making about the austerity measures being used to further income and wealth inequality.

        "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

        by NY brit expat on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:26:50 PM PDT

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    •  Richard made the same point below (1+ / 0-)
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      erush1345

      but if I can still make those speculative investments from another non-European global financial center (like NYC, Johannesburg, Sydney, Hong Kong, Tel Aviv, Mumbai, Toronto, etc.) then how is the problem solved? It doesn't mean that the answer is to do nothing, but simple economics would dictate that if these financiers want to make these transactions and do so with the lowest possible transactional cost, they'll simply go somewhere that allows them to.

      Unapologetic Obama supporter.

      by Red Sox on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:27:20 PM PDT

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      •  Why not simply (1+ / 0-)
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        NY brit expat

        tax all transactions made from outside the EU at EU (and American) stock exchanges at the same rate?

        Some countries will permit non-payment, but that's reason/excuse to lean on them hard as enablers of tax evasion by the wealthy.

      •  and that is the problem in a nutshell ... (2+ / 0-)
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        Richard Lyon, Eric Nelson

        it is the intransigence of the US that is the problem here; I am certain that others could be brought on board, but if the Dems won't do it (and Geithner opposes strongly) that makes it rather difficult to implement on a global level. There are legitimate reasons why people have been arguing to do this globally as opposed to the typical avoidance arguments of the financial sector to avoid the problems for those country's markets that introduce them. Barring that and given that these are really small taxes and really won't destroy the markets in these countries even if introduced solely in Europe (irrespective of what they are screaming),  certain operations will certainly pack up and leave. Richard has been pointing out exactly what the problem is in the absence of international cooperation and introduction of FTTs.

        If there is anyone at fault, it is the US; the UK is now saying they will resist rather than veto as this is a game-breaker in many senses. The powers-that-be are concerned that the peasants are getting restless due to austerity measures and this could help solve some of the problems. So while the US tells Europe to clean up its mess, it will not help them do so. Pressure could be applied on weaker players in the world economy if the US would get on board.

        "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

        by NY brit expat on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 12:42:10 PM PDT

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        •  Others? Really? (1+ / 0-)
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          erush1345

          Financial transactions can be conducted anywhere. Do you think South Africa, which is desperate to draw international investment will somehow turn the screws to its enormous financial center in Sandton? Even if they would (they wouldn't), imposing international taxes on a uniform scale isn't realistic--there will be plenty of countries eager for the international investment that will gladly be havens for finance.

          Unapologetic Obama supporter.

          by Red Sox on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 01:14:26 PM PDT

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          •  the main country to get on board is the (0+ / 0-)

            US ... others can easily be pressured once they are on board as they are part of the world capitalist system. It can be done, it is a tiny tax ... why do you think they are opposing its introduction?

            "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

            by NY brit expat on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 01:22:28 PM PDT

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            •  The US likely lacks the will (1+ / 0-)
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              erush1345

              and the necessarily large constituency clamoring for such change. But the idea that all other sovereign nations will follow suit is, IMO, pure fancy. Moreover, it's unrealistic to expect the US to somehow be a world policeman for other countries to start taxing any one field at a specific amount.

              Unapologetic Obama supporter.

              by Red Sox on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 01:42:48 PM PDT

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              •  It is not fancy it is very easy for powerful (0+ / 0-)

                nations to force smaller ones to do their bidding; the US does not need to be a world policeman, all of these governments together can work to get these implemented. It is the size of the US financial markets and its economic power and its place in the world economy that make it important here, not its military. You are using the term world policeman incorrectly here, whether deliberately or not.

                "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

                by NY brit expat on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 02:10:05 PM PDT

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                •  I'm not suggesting military (1+ / 0-)
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                  erush1345

                  Rather, just because the US charged a transaction tax wouldn't mean that others would too. And I don't see much appetite in Washington to cajole other countries into following suit, and without some sort of sanction for not imposing this tax, there will be at least a couple attractive countries (I suspect South Africa would be at the top of the list) who will forego the tax to attract the financial companies.

                  Unapologetic Obama supporter.

                  by Red Sox on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 02:33:42 PM PDT

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                  •  ok, that is what is meant by the US being the (0+ / 0-)

                    world's policemen. It has no other meaning, which is why what you said made no sense. The sanction is exactly what I am talking about; large financial markets are not easily made and quite honestly Johannesburg is still a small player. It is not only a question of agreeing to service these markets, nothing is that simple. Other countries already have FTTs; this is all a large amount of fuss for a tiny little tax and I am curious why all the fuss honestly. Pressure comes through inter-governmental agencies and sanctions and threats of them.

                    "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

                    by NY brit expat on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 02:55:57 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

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