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View Diary: Daily Kos Elections Morning Digest: What on earth happened to Jennifer Brunner? (314 comments)

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  •  A mess is coming in the primary calendar. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dc1000, sulthernao, itskevin, askew

    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/...
    RNC says that any state that violates party rules will lose 50% of its delegates.

    'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.' -Mahatma Gandhi

    by KingofSpades on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 06:12:33 AM PDT

    •  If that happens, does the GOPer who wins... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      judyms9, itskevin

      ...a rule-violating primary get to hire Lanny Davis to shill on tv for the delegates s/he doesn't get?

      "[S]ince Obama keeps talking nonsense about economics, at what point do we stop giving him credit for actually knowing better? Maybe at some point we have to accept that he believes what he’s saying." --Paul Krugman

      by GreenSooner on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 06:14:14 AM PDT

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      •  Sorry, but what? (0+ / 0-)

        I don't remember the 2008 primaries well (I was busy in my senior year of high school).

        'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.' -Mahatma Gandhi

        by KingofSpades on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 06:15:11 AM PDT

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        •  Michigan held a Dem primary that broke rules. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dc1000, wsexson, Tiger in BlueDenver

          Most everyone but HRC refused to compete...so HRC won, resulting in a long controversy over the delegates that dragged out into May or June, when Obama's delegate was so clearly insurmountable that he could compromise with the Clinton camp on the Michigan delegates.

          It fell to Davis to make the specious arguments for Clinton along the way.  Like most messaging from that campaign, it didn't go very well.

          "[S]ince Obama keeps talking nonsense about economics, at what point do we stop giving him credit for actually knowing better? Maybe at some point we have to accept that he believes what he’s saying." --Paul Krugman

          by GreenSooner on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 06:21:44 AM PDT

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          •  oops.... (0+ / 0-)
            when Obama's delegate lead was so clearly insurmountable that he could compromise with the Clinton camp on the Michigan delegates.

            "[S]ince Obama keeps talking nonsense about economics, at what point do we stop giving him credit for actually knowing better? Maybe at some point we have to accept that he believes what he’s saying." --Paul Krugman

            by GreenSooner on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 06:22:27 AM PDT

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          •  Clinton (0+ / 0-)

            Clinton left her name on the ballot - along with a few other candidates - but neither she nor Obama actually and actively competed on the ground in Michigan to the chagrin of both their supporters.  I remember that time quite well, and with a lot of anger with how the situation was handled all around.  Needless to say it was a mess, but if we had to do it all over again I still support us challenging the ridiculous party primary schedules.

            •  Rules are Rules (0+ / 0-)

              Like so much else about how we choose presidents--from the electoral college on down--the major parties' primary systems are ridiculous. Still, they're national organizations that should be able to decide how they select their presidential nominees (within the limits of the Constitution of course....the GOP can't hold a whites-only primary, e.g.).

              The rational system would be a single, national primary with IRV.

              Anything else will be arbitrary and unfair to many states and voters.

              But nothing is solved by ignoring the rules.

              Michigan knew exactly what it was doing and they should have paid the price for it.

              "[S]ince Obama keeps talking nonsense about economics, at what point do we stop giving him credit for actually knowing better? Maybe at some point we have to accept that he believes what he’s saying." --Paul Krugman

              by GreenSooner on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 06:34:26 AM PDT

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              •  Hey (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                GreenSooner, dc1000

                We were willing to take the punishment, which is why I say I'd support the same thing over again.  I didn't say the punishment was unfair; we knew what we were doing.

              •  Rules (0+ / 0-)

                They were rules that weren't enforced equally.  Iowa and New Hampshire were still allowed to move their dates.   After MI and FL were stripped of their delegates, the situation was remedied.  For some reason, Iowa and NH were allowed to ignored the agreed upon schedule.  There was no need for them to move their dates after the MI/FL primaries were ruled to be void.  

            •  IIRC (0+ / 0-)

              The Michigan-Florida debacle was the stated reason for the formation of PUMA

              "Every daring attempt to make a great change in existing conditions, every lofty vision of new possibilities for the human race, has been labeled Utopian."

              by xcave on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 08:43:56 AM PDT

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    •  you'd think (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KingofSpades

      this primary mess, if anything would exemplify why the markets need at least a LITTLE discipline from an outside force.  no, no, keep letting states decide their primaries whenever.  I can't wait to have the 2016 primaries start in late 2013.

      Help, help, I'm in Connecticut!- Foamy the Squirrel.

      by DougTuttle on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 08:31:43 AM PDT

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    •  Why does Florida always want (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Allen, askew

      more of a say in the primary. Doesn't it get enough attention already?

      "Every daring attempt to make a great change in existing conditions, every lofty vision of new possibilities for the human race, has been labeled Utopian."

      by xcave on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 08:42:25 AM PDT

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      •  Iowa (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Inoljt

        Why does Iowa, a state that's not very representative of the US, think it should always get the first word in who should be our president?

        •  The standard justifications (0+ / 0-)

          Are Iowa's (and New Hampshire's) good-government cultures, small size, and/or high civic participation measures.  So they're theoretically places that will care about retail politicking and small-scale organization.  I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's the argument.  And, as others have said, if you consider the big early states to be Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina, then it becomes somewhat more representative.

          FWIW, a favorite factoid of mine is that Latham's district in Iowa, despite in no way coming close to resembling the U.S. as a whole, is by far the closest district to the U.S. as a whole in Presidential margins over the last three Presidential elections.  I wonder if that somehow is somehow contingent on the existence of the Iowa caucuses.

          26, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

          by Xenocrypt on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 09:48:29 AM PDT

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          •  "Retail politicking" (0+ / 0-)

            I've always thought that's a pretty lame argument to support (or oppose) a candidate for president, though not necessarily at other levels of government.  Just because someone may be good at handshaking or meeting with small cliques of activists (who are often wildly unrepresentative of the general public) does not make them the best candidate to lead the country.

            As for New Hampshire, nothing against the state, but is no state sales or income tax, with extraordinarily high local property taxes and often sketchy services as results, really "good government?"  If so, then what is bad?

        •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

          I just don't know why it's Florida that's out fighting the battle. I mean, god, if there's any state that's given way too much power in presidential elections...

          Just seems to strike me as more a power grab than a legitimate point on principle. If Florida actually cared about individual states having too much of an influence, they would support NPV

          "Every daring attempt to make a great change in existing conditions, every lofty vision of new possibilities for the human race, has been labeled Utopian."

          by xcave on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 09:50:07 AM PDT

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        •  My dad wondered the same too (0+ / 0-)

          They don't have much of an urban sector, they are more agrarian the the nation is as a whole on average, etc.

          'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.' -Mahatma Gandhi

          by KingofSpades on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 10:38:46 AM PDT

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