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View Diary: An Economy cannot be based on CONSUMPTION (285 comments)

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  •  Goods and services both count (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    soros

    But government spending does not, nor does "recurring" spend like health care, auto insurance, etc. The only thing that actually gets you out of the hole is production of goods and services of external economic value that the rest of the world is willing to pay for at the price you produce it.

    If you're a small ski resort town, a bigger hospital to serve your residents doesn't help your economy. But expanding the ski resort does.

    (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
    Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

    by Sparhawk on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 09:37:52 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Government spending is as good as private. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Nose

      What difference does it make whether the expanded ski resort is financed by private sources or by the city through a bond issue?

      Government-funded amenities like parks and museums do add value.

      •  Re (0+ / 0-)
        What difference does it make whether the expanded ski resort is financed by private sources or by the city through a bond issue?

        It doesn't matter, except that the city has essentially become a private corporation at that point. This may or may not be a good idea, for a very small community there may be pros and cons. For bigger communities with diverse economies it probably does not work.

        The important thing is that the area sells something of value to outside the area. Internal government services and hospitals don't drive that dynamic, that's my point.

        Government-funded amenities like parks and museums do add value.

        Oh, I generally agree, but you have to be careful. Things that add value are generally things that people are willing to pay for freely. For example, why can the museum not function purely off of user fees? If it constantly needs government funding, does it really add value, considering it can't find enough paying customers to support its operations?

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 10:48:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Government-funded amenities add value (0+ / 0-)

          to communities. Cody, WY and West Yellowstone, MT certainly derive a lot of benefit from Yellowstone Nat'l Park. Plus all the motels, gas stations, and eateries that benefit from tourists who travel around the country visiting national parks.

          Even more important is the government-funded infrastructure that makes commerce possible.

          “There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody,” Warren said.  “You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear: You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate.
          - Elizabeth Warren
        •  The museum doesn't function purely off of user fee (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cocinero

          because its  mission is not to make money. Believe it or not, not everything exists to make money. The museum's job is to educate the public. Charging an admission fee reduces the number of visitors, and thus contradicts the mission of the museum.

          •  So... (0+ / 0-)

            ...the museum cannot get visitors willing to pay to go. Nor can it get enough private philanthropic funding to survive. Apparently there is no one who thinks the museum is worth enough to actually put some money into it.

            However, the government has decided that it is wiser than the people and specifies that there is a need for the museum despite the fact that the museum would never be supportable on its own. So a lot of people who have no use for the museum (in fact, most people, since the museum can't attract paying customers or philanthropic money) now have to pay for it anyway.

            I am not necessarily saying I oppose all government run museums, but you can see the issues here.

            (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
            Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

            by Sparhawk on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 04:43:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I can see an issue if nobody goes to the museum (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cocinero

              But as long as the museum is well attended, I see no problem with free admissions and continued government support. Just like a public park.

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