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    •  Yep, that's absolutely the case. (33+ / 0-)

      I just hope that the working people—the teachers, the pilots, the service workers—become the face of the movement now that they're on board.

      They're the kind of folks that can get press, because they understand the landscape—and they're also the kind of folks that ordinary Americans will look at and say "those people are like me."

      All in all, I think it would be a good idea for the Left as a whole if we made it an expectation for our protests and actions that we would come dressed like we're going to work (or like we would if we were going to work, for those out of jobs).

      A protest full of Americans in suits and ties, coveralls, pilot's uniforms, nurses' scrubs, and teachers' teaching clothes would be a lot harder to caricature as another Battle In Seattle.

      "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

      by JamesGG on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:03:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  IIRC people are going to ride this with a slut wal (0+ / 0-)

        walk and that's going to mess things up royally.

        "Foolproof systems don't take into account the ingenuity of fools."

        by overclocking on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:05:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  As I indicated below... (0+ / 0-)

          ...I'm pretty sure the SlutWalk march was planned long before OWS. Are you suggesting that the organizers of SWNY should cancel something they've been planning for months?

          "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

          by JamesGG on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:12:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  YES! I think they absolutely should cancel & join (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            drewfromct, nicolemm

            And take those finances and energy and go join this.

            We only have room for one global revolution at a time. They will confuse the messaage and give the media a lefty organization to point at and the Int. Socialist Organization will be there, etc. that's the last thing this fragile growing movement needs. This is serious.

            The opposition's #1 talking point is they are just a bunch of confused kids looking for a reason to protest, "don't even know what they are protesting".

            They are busy clarifying the message into media acceptable soundbites this is no time to introduce more.

            Cancel all these secondary marches and get on board with this. PLEASE

            •  what needs to be joined with is the October 2011 (5+ / 0-)

              movement to occupy Freedom Plaza in DC.  

              Man that is going to be the hot ticket!  I wish I could be there. This is how demonstrations should be done.

              But even more than that I wish someone to tell  me that the merger has already occurred or that they are one and the same thing already.

              Vote GOP in 2012; let's prove the Mayans right!

              by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:29:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Wow, that's problematic. (9+ / 0-)

              Your clear message there is that marching to end rape culture is a minor matter compared to the really important issue, occupying Wall Street.

              Otherwise, you wouldn't be suggesting that people who have been planning a march to happen on October 1 since several months before OWS began, take all of their plans and cancel them because a clearly more important issue came along.

              Perhaps OWS should cancel their protest for a day and march alongside the SlutWalkers, putting down their anti-Wall-Street signs for a day and picking up signs proclaiming that rape culture is unacceptable.

              "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

              by JamesGG on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:30:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I bet GS and the Koch brothers (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                trueblueliberal

                are loving you right about now.  And heck, they didn't even half to pay you.  I look forward to the news on NYC protests from the cable outlets.

                "Foolproof systems don't take into account the ingenuity of fools."

                by overclocking on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:32:59 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Why? I'm not involved in either movement. (1+ / 0-)

                  Are you suggesting that even those who speak up in favor of SlutWalk, rather than join in your demand that they cancel this event they've been planning for months, are doing the work of Goldman Sachs and the Koch brothers?

                  Is this what our discourse has become?

                  "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

                  by JamesGG on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:42:25 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Making mountains out of mole hills. (0+ / 0-)

                    It isn't a question of importance, its a question of resonance.  If this is where the resonance is, then this is where everybody needs to rally.   Issues need to converge around mass instead of mass dispersing around issues.    Income distribution impacts everybody.

                    Yes we can, but he won't.

                    by dkmich on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 02:22:06 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Koch is organizing the Teabaggers (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  The Lighthouse Keeper, zett

                  Who's organizing this protest? This is clearly the obverse side of the Tea Party coin, protesting the wealthy, uber-funded groups that make us look disorganized just because they're more hierarchical. It's our numbers, guys, that overrides the Tea Party's critics and ours. We need more numbers, lots more.

                  If it takes strippers and prostitutes and anybody else who doesn't wear a tie to work, to carry the message of being exploited by the bankers, then don't duck the issue, wear it as a badge! The argument of our adversaries is, you aren't pure enough. Bullsh*t, we weren't pure when we were looted by Wall Street, and we sure as hell don't have to be pure to put a stop to it! It's our diversity, folks, that provides our strength. Use it, sell it, make it a feature, not an embarrassment, this is how all of us are connected, by our being looted by Wall Street.

              •  If anything "Marching to end rape culture" (11+ / 0-)

                is an overarching theme here. Wall Street's rape of Main Street has gone on long enough.

                Solidarity!

                Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

                by SadieB on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:36:13 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  That's exactly what I'm saying (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                drewfromct

                "Your clear message there is that marching to end rape culture is a minor matter compared to the really important issue, occupying Wall Street."

                The media won't know at all that they have been planning this since July. They will scramble to this poorly named "Slutwalk", tie it to OWS, ridicule it and say they have no idea what they are protesting against.

                •  Right (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  trueblueliberal

                  OccupyWallStreet, whatever its goals are, needs SlutWalk like it needs a hole in the head. Not that I particularly support or oppose SlutWalk (maybe need a little more info on what they are about), but a primarily economics driven protest does not need a primarily sexuality driven protest to be muddying the waters here.

                  (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
                  Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

                  by Sparhawk on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:46:21 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  A "primarily sexuality driven protest"? (9+ / 0-)

                    Try a "primarily human-rights driven protest."

                    Rape is not about "sexuality." It's about power and domination, about hegemonic masculinity placing the needs and desires of men above a woman's right to bodily autonomy.

                    The people marching against rape culture on Saturday are not marching for "sexuality"—they are marching for every woman's inborn, inherent human right not to be raped, and for the blame for rape to be placed where it belongs, 100% with the rapist and 0% with the victim/survivor.

                    "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

                    by JamesGG on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:51:01 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Blah (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      hannahlk

                      The primary purpose of their march has to do with sex. A large number of the marchers are going to be dressed in a sexually provocative manner, right? OccupyWallStreet does not need this.

                      I'm not even sure I understand OccupyWallStreet or what the protestors hope to accomplish, but a protest over economics does not need parallel sexual matters muddying it up.

                      Like I said, SlutWalk is free to do whatever they want. But they will negatively impact OccupyWallStreet. If they're willing to do that, hey, it's a free country (for now).

                      (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
                      Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

                      by Sparhawk on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:57:23 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  No, it doesn't have to do with sex. (7+ / 0-)

                        It has to do with the basic human right of women to wear whatever they want to wear—whether that's sexually provocative or a burqa—without being blamed for their own victimization if a rapist rapes them.

                        It has to do with the basic human right of women to live in a society that spends more time telling men not to rape women than it does telling women how to "avoid" being raped.

                        It has to do with the basic human right of women to live in a society where rape isn't treated as an accepted "given," like a rainstorm, that they should have to prepare for, but like the violent crime that it is.

                        "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

                        by JamesGG on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 02:04:59 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  "SlutWalk" is a ridiculous idea (0+ / 0-)

                          that accomplishes none of the obviously laudable goals mentioned in your comment.

                          Sure, flame me as if I don't get it--I've only been an ardent, active and outspoken feminist for 20 years or so.

                          What I'll never get is this current wave of "do-me feminism" where women seem to somehow equate portraying themselves as sex objects with empowering women.  It doesn't, and they're not.

                          •  Like you said, you don't get it. (0+ / 0-)

                            Sad.

                            Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

                            by SadieB on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 03:24:01 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Second-wavers (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SadieB

                            It's like they were so dead-set against exploitation by the patriarchy that they forgot their clits are there for a reason.

                            When are you going to understand that being normal is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage. - Practical Magic

                            by Keori on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 03:53:13 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                    •  Nobody cares right now (0+ / 0-)

                      I care, people care, just nbot now.

                      The whole world should be focused on this one issue. Not a prade or varying protests.

                      It's extremely important for the media. Hell we may even win over the teabbaggers once they realize they're preaching the exact same talking points, hate the same things and that we have all been screwed equally.

                      Once they get introduced to SLUTWALK though and told that every group with an issue is coming out of the woodwork, not so much.

                      It's like it has the perfect name for a Fox, ABC, CBS etc. disruption, confusion march, I'm worried, this is so important and fragile.

                      •  "Nobody cares right now"? (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        SadieB

                        I don't recall going to the polls on the day you were elected to represent the opinions of everybody.

                        Nor, for that matter, do I recall empowering you to decide what I "should" be focused on.

                        "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

                        by JamesGG on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 02:17:32 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Oh brother (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          trueblueliberal

                          Why don't ya'll try to think of this technically and objectively, you guys have missed all points.

                          We'll see how it turns out, and the perception, and if it is ever even heard about, if it does damage, or if it helps, or if chics can start wearing fishnet stockings to work.

                          Like we're not for whatever the hell they're doing.

                          It just doesn't feel right, right now. OWS could derail at any time.

                          Can you understand that? It's simple.

                •  The media is going to lie, distort, discredit etc (5+ / 0-)

                  no matter what we do. They don't work for us, they are not our friends. Why are you letting them tell you what to think? Why do you think you can win their love if only you try hard enough?

                  Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

                  by SadieB on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:47:55 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  or maybe we could actually trust the MSM (0+ / 0-)

                to responsibly articulate the fact that there are two different actions occurring here.

                i bet they're capable of doing that.

                and at any rate, we shouldn't lower the bar for anyone.

                Vote GOP in 2012; let's prove the Mayans right!

                by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:46:38 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  No they will not do this (0+ / 0-)

                  They will do and are doing exactly the opposite, combining everybody's messages and saying nobody knows what they are complaining about.

                  They have just begun to state it clearly and clarify it...

                  •  you may be surprised. but in the meanwhile, (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    SadieB, zett

                    ignore the media.  and realise that the forces that be will always find a reason to attempt to dilute the real power in the country.  if it isn't the lack of clarified goals, it will be slut walk, or it will be it's confusing to everyone to have it be so close to the october 2011 movement action.  which in turn will be a problem because honest to gosh socialists are involved in that.  ignore it.  don't give your power away.

                    you're trying to capitulate to their shaping of the narrative.  when people on this site see obama doing that they go beserk.

                    Vote GOP in 2012; let's prove the Mayans right!

                    by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 02:13:45 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  What? Are you trying to tell me GE, Disney, (0+ / 0-)

                      News Corp, Time Warner, Viacom and CBS are not for the people?!?

                      That the court jesters might, gasp, answer to the throne??

                      Say it isn't so.

                      Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

                      by SadieB on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 03:30:05 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  This is not the moment for anti-democracy. We've (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SadieB

              already had more than enough of that "for the good of the XXXX."  That way lies betrayal and anybody serious about lifting the anti-democratic, authoritarian, elitist oligopoly from the backs of ordinary people should think more than twice about advising people with grievances to stay home and keep their heads down.  If you want to label slut walkers sometimes tasteless, I'll agree.  Off the streets and remanded to home, disagree.  Strongly.

              "There is nothing harder to dislodge than entrenched privilege." Jake Blumgart

              by CarolinNJ on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 02:52:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Actually (0+ / 0-)

            There were some interesting criticisms about the Walk.

            http://tothecurb.wordpress.com/...

            I write the series Confessions of a Retail Worker here on DK. It documents my life in a non-unionized workplace.

            by Lightbulb on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 02:15:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  We got ourselves a convoy RubberDuck (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Gordon20024, Prospect Park

        I got that feeling in my gut, gives me shivers, of hope.

        FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 02:21:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  A good friend of mine who has been a pilot... (13+ / 0-)

      ...for United for about 30 years once told me that things changed so much that they are no longer treated as professionals but as truck drivers (his words 5 years ago).  

      How official is their participation?

      Dailykos.com; an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action 48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam

      by Shockwave on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:31:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  American Airlines (4+ / 0-)

        I fly many, many miles on American Airlines.  I can still remember the week when the flight attendant, mechanics and pilots all agreed to huge cuts in salary and benefits - and upper management celebrated by handing out six and seven figure bonuses to each other.  It was like a sky funeral.  It was the point for them where everyone who didn't really love their job quit.

        Meet me in Cognito, baby

        by out grrl on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 02:33:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Freaks and Squares together man, it's (23+ / 0-)

      the Elite's worst nightmare.

      Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

      by SadieB on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:33:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The pilots? (4+ / 0-)

      There for a 15 minute photo op thing, they showed up to do an unrelated photo in their own fight over mergers and such.  Completely unrelated to OccupyWallStreet and it's a shame it's being put about like it was connected at all.

      "I believe in a government which acts, which exercises its full powers and full responsibilities. Government is an art and a precious obligation..." JFK

      by Rick Aucoin on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:35:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I would like to see Anthony Bologna try to (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gordon20024, Vetwife, Tom Taaffe

      pepper spray a teamster

      sure he will go after a girl who is already held back by a barricade but I would really REALLLY like to see him try to spray a teamster

      (evil smile)

      "Orwell was an optimist"

      by KnotIookin on Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 01:48:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is where I pull out my hair. (5+ / 0-)

      Harder for who to demonize? The media? The media will spin this any way they want. The first week of #OccupyWallStreet, there were clearly both young and old people of different backgrounds there but the narrative then, even among some here was "disorganized hippies."

      Yeah, the respectable pilots have shown up, now we can pay attention? I am thrilled that the pilots and other members of labor are coming together over this and it is long past overdue. It's not like they couldn't have said the same things for the past 10 years. But I'm tired of the unemployed, the 'eccentric', the artists, the writers, the academics, the dreamers, being ridiculed in this country. If you don't grow up to become a faceless cog in a corporate machine, you're 'not worthy' anymore?

      As for the Slutwalk, more power to them. Maybe they will actually get a photographer or two to cover what's happening on Wall Street. I have to giggle when folks here admonish other groups not to bring up their issues because it might look "messy". Democracy is messy. We've gotten so accustomed to having our sanctioned and approved protests planned, organized, sanitized, funded and covered by complicit corporate actors that we get bent out of shape over what is clearly an actual organic grassroots movement. Power to the people!

      •  Nobody said anything (0+ / 0-)

        about being "messy".

        It's about only having room for one revolution at a time right now.

        It's not a parade of protests. They all need to join with a similar message, somewhat unified purpose.

        Now is a BAD time anyway, to try to bring attention to rape and generic "femenist" sexual issues in downtown NYC. Think most people have other things on their mind, especially there.

        God the more I think about it it's like the ultimate setup of instant discredit. This isn't a big festival of social issues. The more it is made out to be that the less effective it becomes. Just sayin'.

        Hopefully it's nothing.

        •  There's been plenty said about it, you (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SadieB, Tom Taaffe

          affirm it in your response. Generic 'femenist' [sic] issues? 'Generic'? Are you serious? It's a big world and NYC is a big city. The more the merrier and the better chance that people will be seen and heard.

          And yes, #OccupyWallStreet is exactly about social and economic issues. There is a lot going wrong in this country right now and a bunch of it can be traced back to the Gucci-loafered crooks on Wall Street who helped usher in an unprecedented wealth gap, a bought-and-brokered US government and a global economic meltdown.

    •  I'll bet they don't pepper spray the teamsters. nt (0+ / 0-)
    •  They some how managed to demonize teachers (0+ / 0-)

      While booing soldiers serving in a war zone so you can bet they will try.

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