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View Diary: The Left Drops the Ball (244 comments)

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  •  Asking about an objective is not CON n/t (6+ / 0-)

    "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

    by GrumpyOldGeek on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 04:42:51 AM PDT

    •  Huh? - those are the people who have taken the con (7+ / 0-)

      side on the debate. Their objection - the reason they're con - is lack of objective.

      Odd you replied though, I recently noticed your comments about Occupy Wall Street way back in August. I was wondering if you'd changed your mind. I'm guessing not.

      Thousands of years ago the question was asked: 'Am I my brother's keeper?' That question has never yet been answered in a way that is satisfactory to civilized society. ~ Eugene V. Debbs

      by PlutocracyFiles on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 04:49:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Getting a PO was an objective for me once (9+ / 0-)

        Scaling back the assault on the Constitution of the prior regime and maybe even bringing a few perps to justice was another one.  Come to think of it, reining in Wall Street was a major objective once upon a time.

        What the last 33 mos have taught me is that our political system, as presently constituted, is incapable of meaningful "Change."  The problem goes well beyond 1 individual, or even 1 branch of govt.  We are suffering an obvious systemic failure of epic proportions.  

        In an ideal  world, perhaps this energy would've come from another source.  As per Rumsfeldese, however, you go to war w/ the army that you have.  Besides, this army is starting to pick up labor reinforcements, and, as they do, perhaps the movement will snowball.

        We badly need the enthusiasm and the sense of purpose that has been provided by these people.

        Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

        by RFK Lives on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 12:28:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Where was I against this? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueoasis, orlbucfan

        The only thing I kept saying is that this wouldn't work without a clear objective. I never said the idea was a bad one. Just that the tactics couldn't be successful unless there was a clear objective.

        Several objectives have been presented. Michael Moore was probably the clearest. Take back our future. That really is what it's all about. The next step is necessary. Who are you addressing? What do you want them to do? You'[re still yelling at clouds.

        Frankly, absolutely nothing has happened because of this so-called movement. It's not a movement so far. Just like in the 60's, it was little more than a big party. Once there were assassinations, race riots, anti-war violence, and students killed by our own state militias, not a damn thing happened. No, I'm certainly not suggesting violence. This CAN be done without violence. But you don't know what you want, who to talk to, and who can help get it done.

        It's ok to have several sub-objectives, but it won't work unless one overarching objective is articulated. There are no enemys here. Wall Street can actually help if you can get past your ignorance of how the markets and the economy are tied together.

        I'm unemployed. I have no income. I'm ineligible for benefits of any kind. My children are grown and have children of their own. They are barely scrapiing by. My grandchildren have a bleak future. I physically can't be there. Polio victim.

        The words I really want to say to this whole so-called movement will get me banned. Just because I think you're doing nothing that will have an effect, it doesn't mean that I'm against what I think you're trying to do.

        "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

        by GrumpyOldGeek on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 02:58:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  In AoT's August 18, 2011 diary + (0+ / 0-)

          Maybe it's more accurate to say you weren't encouraging

          Thousands of years ago the question was asked: 'Am I my brother's keeper?' That question has never yet been answered in a way that is satisfactory to civilized society. ~ Eugene V. Debs

          by PlutocracyFiles on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 04:03:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not encouraging that particular plan (0+ / 0-)

            because it wouldn't send the message that needed to be sent.

            It was very clear that there were some ideas that were going to backfire. I've been there. I and others have learned the hard way.

            Just look at the way Bill McKibben planned and executed his protests against tar sands environmental issues. You'll see that this got press coverage right up front and is now spreading and getting some real attention. You'll note that he involved legal experts during the planning phase, not after the fact.

            Read his posts. You might get some information that will help.

            His protests were peaceful. He didn't violate stupid municipal ordinances that get people arrested for doing things that they don't realize are violations. The most common laws violated include disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, failing to get proper permits, failure to obey police orders, and, believe it or not, mob actions. One person steps off the curb and into the street and the whole group will get arrested. That's the way it works. So you make sure that people know not to step into the street. It really is that simple.

            The participants were briefed in great detail about the mundane issues of stupid ordinances like these. This is crucial.

            I have no problem with what's being attempted. I just have problems with plans to do stupid things that distract from the purpose of the protests.

            "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

            by GrumpyOldGeek on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 04:28:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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