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View Diary: The Left Drops the Ball (244 comments)

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  •  The 'progressive intelligensia' and veteran (26+ / 0-)

    organizers must realize that while their expertise and guidance is much needed, no one wants them to Swoop In and Take Over. They need to join with the protesters, not assume that they are to take over the reins.

    I know you weren't saying any of that, but I feel it must be pointed out.

    Occupy Wall Street. Occupy Main Street. Occupy everything. Force a tsunami of change on the nation.

    by Black Max on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:05:24 AM PDT

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    •  The people who built this need to (17+ / 0-)

      be wary of those who want to run it now.

      Because most of them have no goal other than changing the destination.

      President Perry announced that noted terror promoter Noam Chomsky, whose works are believed by the Administration to have inspired terror around the globe, was killed in a drone strike as he ventured out of his Icelandic bunker.

      by JesseCW on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:10:33 AM PDT

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      •  I've read some sincerely pissed-off and (16+ / 0-)

        frustrated comments from small-bore Tea Party leaders who were taken aback when the Big Boys from Freedomworks, AFP, and so forth swept in and took over. They apparently didn't realize, or recognize, that the TP movement was constructed in K Street lobbyists' office, and were shocked when those lobbyists and their paid creatures appeared at their doorstep to take over what they thought was a grassroots organization.

        OWS is anything but Astroturf, but the point remains: if the "big boys" come in and try to take over, it will render the protests impotent and irrelevant: they will become the left's version of the 9/12 Project.

        Occupy Wall Street. Occupy Main Street. Occupy everything. Force a tsunami of change on the nation.

        by Black Max on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:22:30 AM PDT

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        •  And this is my fear when I hear about the unions (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          alizard, lotlizard, Black Max, nicolemm

          showing "solidarity". It's great that established organizations are taking notice, but those established organizations need to be asking themselves how THEY can change and become more like the protesters. I'm afraid that they will swoop in and (well-intentioned) swamp the protesters with their "business as usual" way of doing things. Those established institutions need to understand that their "business as usual" way of approaching things doesn't work, and hasn't worked for at least 30 years.

      •  Agreed - not my suggestion + (12+ / 0-)

        But Mike Konczal, for example, has been writing about how to reform financial markets and make things more equal for some time - and the questions I heard them asking Chris Hedges, I think there's room to be useful. NOT take over, be useful and provide expertise they want - just as Nurses are coming in to train medics. I am suggesting assistance, NOT taking over, AT ALL!

        For example, I follow Konczal and I know he has thought a lot about the technicalities of debt forgiveness. He knows the statistics on these things. He knows the federal programs that have been tried and failed. That could be useful information if someone was interested in a Cancel the Debts program. If they're not, cool - but if they are, he can help - A LOT.

        Thousands of years ago the question was asked: 'Am I my brother's keeper?' That question has never yet been answered in a way that is satisfactory to civilized society. ~ Eugene V. Debbs

        by PlutocracyFiles on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:23:06 AM PDT

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        •  I agree. Intellectual contributions (6+ / 0-)

          are important, and Konczal sure isn't trying to take over but rather to make his own contribution to the hive mind.

          We're loooong overdue for a Jubilee (doing it every could generations is the only way debt-based currency remains viable) and it's something that's gotta be organized.

          Hedges I'd prefer to remain silent on.

          President Perry announced that noted terror promoter Noam Chomsky, whose works are believed by the Administration to have inspired terror around the globe, was killed in a drone strike as he ventured out of his Icelandic bunker.

          by JesseCW on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:27:09 AM PDT

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        •  Rule Of Law first (9+ / 0-)

          I would want to see the rule of law enforced first before we look at reforms. Essentially we have a bunch of Class A felons running the money of the country. Discussing reforms without the necessary cleansing process of jailing the felons is way way premature. There are many laws on the books right now to deal with what they have done that have been completely ignored such as securities fraud, mortgage fraud  and more importantly the RICO act when we have cultures in the TBTF that rewards criminal behavior.

          We need to clean the banks out and see what we have left which means FASB has to put back the rule of Mark to Market. The banks have to come up with 10 Years worth of insurance payments to the FDIC that they bribed congress to suspend from 1996-2006, regardless of what is does the capital of the bank. Then once we see where we are we let the numbers dictate the actions.

           If the ratios are below minimums the banks must be taken into receivership. All the TBTFs are insolvent once mark-to-market or even non-performing loans are pulled from assets. Note: If someone stops making payments on their credit cards , banks add the penalties and charges to their income statement for 6 months before taking a charge off. The way that banks are leveraged up now, a 10% write down of their assets will result in wiping out the equity.

          The average write down of banks taken over by the FDIC was 30%.

          If we take in the largest and sell the assets for 10 cents on the dollar to the other 8000 banks out there with the idea that they will markdown the loan 75%, we strengthen and decentralize the banks. Then put an upper limit on leverage and assets that would be an immediate call to break the bank up. The TBTF banks have over 70% of the consumer debt in the country.

          Citibank : 2 Trillion
          JP Morgan: 1.7Trillion
          B of A: 2.2 Trillion
          Wells Fargo 1.2 Trillion

          Just these 4 Banks have 65% of the consumer debt in America. One way of stimulating the economy constantly is to mark the debt down by half or 3/4s which immediately frees up disposable income. The way we are doing it now, throwing unlimited amounts of money at the banks the plug the leaks ,millions of them, isn't working.

          Businesses need customers to hire , take out loans, pay taxes. The problem clearly started with the banks and will only end if the banks are prosecuted. Rule of Law first then everything else will follow. Without it, the Nation will most certainly implode.

          •  Banking dummy here. But as you can explain so (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Black Max, blueoasis

            clearly that even I understand enough to be able to research your information, then, as PlutocracyFiles says:

            That could be useful information if someone was interested in a Cancel the Debts program. If they're not, cool - but if they are, he can help - A LOT.

            This is the kind of information that should be available.

            We´re going to have a rough time anyhow this century, but we could face it with confidence and trust in each other, if only we could get over our fears of each other.---marsanges

            by DawnN on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 04:28:25 PM PDT

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      •  Side note: your sig line (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JesseCW, alizard

        is truly terrifying. :)

        Occupy Wall Street. Occupy Main Street. Occupy everything. Force a tsunami of change on the nation.

        by Black Max on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:25:31 AM PDT

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    •  Agreed - can't be over-emphasized! + (8+ / 0-)

      I should have emphasized even more LISTENING to the protesters and trying to give them information they're looking for.

      Thousands of years ago the question was asked: 'Am I my brother's keeper?' That question has never yet been answered in a way that is satisfactory to civilized society. ~ Eugene V. Debbs

      by PlutocracyFiles on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:17:52 AM PDT

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    •  this is it in a nutshell (6+ / 0-)

      "organizers must realize that while their expertise and guidance is much needed, no one wants them to Swoop In and Take Over. They need to join with the protesters, not assume that they are to take over the reins."

      I was involved in a total grass roots political campaign. We were not experienced political operatives. But we were a bunch of smart people with great work ethics and professional experience in various areas. After about 8 months of work, when it became clear we had built something substantia,l the local progressive "professionals" offered to help. What "help" turned out to be was they wanted to take ownership and control,  after all of our work. And boy did they get angry when we told them that wasn't acceptable.  Who did we thing we were?! The message was that they were the experts and we were just poor lost children without them.  

      I see a very similar thing here.

      "I'll hold my nose and vote but I won't hold my nose and canvass or call or donate." Some Dkos Comment

      by onemadson on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 12:16:06 PM PDT

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    •  If you read "The Coming Insurrection" (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alizard, lotlizard, DawnN, Black Max, nicolemm

      (a remarkable prefiguring of the uprisings sweeping much of the world today) one of the great warnings the authors give to the insurgents is to ignore the "milieus" and the "activists" that have been ground down by two generations of relentless defeat, because those who've lived through that (which includes myself) can only offer them ideas contaminated with our own hard-earned despair and defeatism.  That's a great point and why I for one am extremely reticent to try to impose my perspective  and experience on what can only be successful  by being itself, new unique and original.

      "The existence of a good thing is no evidence of its being enjoyed by the working class." ~ Daniel DeLeon

      by ActivistGuy on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 12:25:11 PM PDT

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    •  The next step is the retail politics.... (0+ / 0-)

      ....where people take it out of the streets and into the coffeeshops, bars, churches, and workplaces.

      Even just telling one person about the chutzpah of Bank of America is doing your part - it's turning the conventional wisdom against the banksters and the politicians and media they own.

      9-11 changed everything? Well, Katrina changed it back.

      by varro on Sun Oct 02, 2011 at 12:32:18 AM PDT

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