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View Diary: Women In Comics: A Look at DC’s New 52 (121 comments)

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  •  I think the author is a little hard on (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nina Katarina

    Suicide Squad.  One could just as easily say that they did a service to Harley by making her able to function without Mr. J and making her a bit more serious and less cartoonish.

    This is the 3rd or 4th critique of Teen Titans (I haven't read it) along the same lines so this seems to be the worst example and Suicide Squad should not even be in the same conversation.

    Batgirl, Supergirl and Birds of Prey were really good and they are now going to be on my "pull list".  So I would be a tad more sanguine about the fate of female characters in the DC 'verse with the exception of that weird Teen Titans thing that everyone is responding to.

    Number 1 thing I do not want to hear: "Are you satisfied" (uttered by Chuck Todd).

    by AZphilosopher on Mon Oct 03, 2011 at 08:55:56 AM PDT

    •  Respectfully disagree (and slight correction) (0+ / 0-)

      Correction first: the problematic Starfire is in Red Hood & the Outlaws, a Titans offshoot. That's important primarily because there is a new TT book which is starting off pretty well.

      As for SS and Outlaws being in the same conversation, that's where I respectfull disagree. Harley aside, the pointless new body for Amanda Waller is as agressive in its way as the excision of Starfire's personality. Perhaps more important, this diary looks at the overall impact of the New 52. Good starts for Batgirl, Batwoman, Supergirl, and Wonder Woman (despite the potential cheesecake) are offset by the negative aspects. What's the overall balance? YMMV, of course, but I land on disappointed with notes of optimism.

      Everyone's been nice to me, the way that Vincent Price would be with midnight coming on. -Peter Blegvad

      by RBHSOregon on Mon Oct 03, 2011 at 09:03:01 AM PDT

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      •  Weight and gender is such a complex (0+ / 0-)

        topic.  Right now, there seems to be some sort of weird reverse double standard developing.  Changing Waller is viewed as somehow an example of misogyny while everyone feels free to knock Christie on his weight and call on him to lose significant amounts of weight.  Last week on MSNBC was "Christie is too fat" week.  In the dating market, it is acceptable to reject males based on proportions but males that do the same are viewed as "shallow".  

        I'm willing to say that this is a character named Waller that bears no resemblance to the original and chalk it up to the reboot.  I'm not quite sure what to make of claims that would somehow automatically say changing Waller's weight is sexist.  This may very well be an example of DC rejecting various forms of diversity (as is getting Gordon out of the chair), but I don't think that that necessarily translates into misogyny.

        I would be inclined to agree if they go on to aggressively sexualize Waller in subsequent books, however.

        Number 1 thing I do not want to hear: "Are you satisfied" (uttered by Chuck Todd).

        by AZphilosopher on Mon Oct 03, 2011 at 09:50:44 AM PDT

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        •  Where are all the fat guys? (0+ / 0-)

          I've looked through a few female created, boy love manga, and all I saw was skinny, pretty guys with long flowing hair.  Where are the fat boys?  Why can't a fat model get on as many romance novel covers as Fabio?  

        •  Waller's change has ZERO to do (0+ / 0-)

          with misogony or sexism. It's to make her resemble Angela Bassett, who will be playing her in the Suicide Squad movie. There is a long history of comic companies doing this.

          Claims that it is somehow "sexist" or "misogynistic" actually makes it harder to take legitimate criticism of the DCnU seriously, IMO.

          "The future of man is not one billion of us fighting over limited resources on a soon-to-be dead planet. . .I won't go back into the cave for anyone."

          by Whimsical on Mon Oct 03, 2011 at 11:10:52 AM PDT

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          •  We'll never agree on this one (0+ / 0-)

            I see your point but stand by my assertion that the cinematic Waller should have been cast to be more respectful of the comics vision of the character. Failing that, there is zero reason for DC to try to make the characters match. That there are limited Hollywood options who look like Waller is sad, but perhaps true. Comics are not bound by that limitation. YMMV regarding the extent of the sexism inherent, but the decision was unnecessary and removed a powerful symbol from the DC universe.

            Everyone's been nice to me, the way that Vincent Price would be with midnight coming on. -Peter Blegvad

            by RBHSOregon on Mon Oct 03, 2011 at 11:36:46 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, we won't. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              AZphilosopher

              But I will cede that if there was a: short, overweight, African American actress with talent, and enough name recognition to be offered the role, but without enough to make the film too expensive, she should have been offered the role.

              Comics are not bound by anything; DC is under no obligation to keep Waller the same. They do it so people don't pick up the comic, go "This is not like the movie" and put it down again (and yes, those people exist, I've seen them). But again, this is not based AT ALL on sexism. It is based on the profit motive, and making the 'sexist' claim about something so clearly not sexist damages your credibility on other, more valid points, imo.

              I do owe you some thanks: This discussion has forced me to examine my own highly negative reaction to most of the criticisms of the DCnU (with the exception of the Starfire ones), and I have figured out why they bother me so much.

              "The future of man is not one billion of us fighting over limited resources on a soon-to-be dead planet. . .I won't go back into the cave for anyone."

              by Whimsical on Mon Oct 03, 2011 at 08:45:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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