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  •  What advantages does OWS give him? (0+ / 0-)

    R.I.P. Troy Anthony Davis
    October 9, 1968 - September 21, 2011

    by SwedishJewfish on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 08:54:50 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  An energized progressive base (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pot, blueoasis

      that is willing to deal with him and many of his ideas, even if not to be "all in."

      In my avatar, the blue bars show how many want Reps who COMPROMISE; the aqua bars show who wants Reps who STAND FAST no matter what. (Left=Overall; Center=Democrats; Right=Republicans.) And there's the problem!

      by Seneca Doane on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 09:51:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm honestly not sure about that... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FG

        first person account from MoT says they are mostly disaffected Obama supporters with a few Ron Paul voters sprinkled in the mix...of course that may change as it evolves.

        R.I.P. Troy Anthony Davis
        October 9, 1968 - September 21, 2011

        by SwedishJewfish on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 10:01:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm a disaffected Obama supporter (9+ / 0-)

          (although I expect to vote for him in Nov. 2012.)  How disaffected?  Ask me after the Keystone XL decision.

          In my avatar, the blue bars show how many want Reps who COMPROMISE; the aqua bars show who wants Reps who STAND FAST no matter what. (Left=Overall; Center=Democrats; Right=Republicans.) And there's the problem!

          by Seneca Doane on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 10:03:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I feel the same way (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Seneca Doane, pgm 01, dewley notid, DawnN

            Gasoline made from the tar sands gives a Toyota Prius the same impact on climate as a Hummer using gasoline made from oil. ~ Al Gore

            by Lefty Coaster on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 10:34:10 AM PDT

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          •  Disaffected supporters might vote for him (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Seneca Doane, pgm 01, white blitz

            but I don't really see them getting organized to help him get re-elected. In fact I kind of see this as hurting his re-election chances. Civil unrest never bodes well for the incumbent, especially from within their own ranks. Just look at what happened in 1968.

            He will lose a good chunk of his base if he signs off on Keystone. That's a line in the sand (no pun intended) for a lot of people. Definately is for me.

            R.I.P. Troy Anthony Davis
            October 9, 1968 - September 21, 2011

            by SwedishJewfish on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 10:38:46 AM PDT

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            •  I'll be working on local races in CA (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Lefty Coaster, SwedishJewfish

              (where Obama is either not in danger or, if in danger, doomed anyway.)  That will involve promoting Obama.  It's actually hard to work in a partisan downticket race without supporting the party leader.

              I disagree about the impact of OWS.  This is the disaffected person's rational alternative to the Tea Party.  The mere existence of such an alternative helps him greatly.

              In my avatar, the blue bars show how many want Reps who COMPROMISE; the aqua bars show who wants Reps who STAND FAST no matter what. (Left=Overall; Center=Democrats; Right=Republicans.) And there's the problem!

              by Seneca Doane on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 10:42:38 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  I think OWS is mostly about economic issues (0+ / 0-)

        as opposed to environmental issues.  Is that incorrect?

        •  They realize it is all connected as evidenced (4+ / 0-)

          by their declaration.

          As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
          They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
          They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
          They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
          They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
          They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
          They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
          Declaration of the Occupation of New York City
        •  It is mostly about corporate ownership (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          beach babe in fl

          of our government. It seems they can buy what ever laws/policies they want.

      •  What do OWS & the Mainstream Dems Have in Common? (0+ / 0-)

        They are on completely opposite sides ideologically.  The OWS movement is for the 99% while the mainstream Democrats/Obama administration and the GOP are essentially only about representing the economic interests of the 1%.

        There is no common ground between Obama and OWS. They are on diametrically different sides. The last thing Obama wants is an energized progressive base. He's been very well paid to work against those very interests.

        Advisors for President-Elect Barack Obama feared the new administration would face a coup if it prosecuted Bush-era war crimes, according to a new report out this morning.

        by Kurt Sperry on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 11:22:57 AM PDT

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        •  I disagree, but if that's how you feel (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DawnN

          then of course you're entitled not to vote for him.  I see no contradiction between supporting #OWS and being willing to vote for Obama -- despite the fact that he has been much more responsive in his first 33 months in office to the Summerses rather than the Stiglitzes.

          I don't have to vote for Obama in the belief that he represents me; I'll vote for him because I'd far prefer to try to influence him than to influence any Republican.

          If other #OWS people disagree with me, so be it.  I think that a year from now, they'll be more receptive to the argument.  I hope that Obama does his part to make them so.

          In my avatar, the blue bars show how many want Reps who COMPROMISE; the aqua bars show who wants Reps who STAND FAST no matter what. (Left=Overall; Center=Democrats; Right=Republicans.) And there's the problem!

          by Seneca Doane on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 02:41:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm Actually Torn (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DawnN

            whether to vote for Obama or not.  On one side he is better than any likely alternative, that's a plus.  On the other I don't believe he represents me or anyone I know.  I have seen too little of anything to convince me he isn't working solely for the financial interests of the 1% and by default against the interests of the other 99%.  

            I believe he will fight against any reforms that cause any significant pain for his wealthy donors who represent the 1% who are destroying the country and don't believe any meaningful reform is possible that won't do just exactly that, thus he cannot be part of any real solution.  I further have no remaining belief he will ever advocate for progressive economic policies- even when those policies are broadly supported by the people who elected him. No leader with a single progressive bone in their body would take on bad actors like Summers and Geithner, would preemptively fold on single payer, would enthusiastically take up the Republican framing on deficits, would surge blood and treasure into the hopeless quagmire of Afghanistan, would expand the security state, would prosecute brave whistleblowers with a vigor that would have made GWB blush, would fight tooth and nail to continue the intellectually and morally bankrupt war on drugs, would use Social Security and Medicare people have already paid for as bargaining chips, would steadfastly support the assault on the Bill of Rights that is the Patriot Act, would conspire after the fact to shield torturers, war criminals and the perpetrators of the biggest fraud in the history of the world from justice. The list- obviously- goes on and on.

            Do I hold my nose, repudiate almost every political belief I hold dear and bless this administration with the sacred imprimatur of my vote because I fear the consequences of his defeat?  Or do I make a hopeless protest vote, one I can live with but may play a small part in even greater evil unfolding?

            The OWS protests are giving me courage to do the latter because I know there are many others who share my disgust with the status quo, with the broken duopoly that works for the 1% and treats the other 99% with barely disguised contempt.  I want to stand up and assert my rights- to be heard. Not to surrender to fear and cynical pragmatism by supporting candidates who I believe to be corrupt and are almost entirely antithetical to everything I believe is fair and just and right and uniquely American. Maybe we should stand and be counted even if it hurts to. Because not standing up now will represent the loss of  something much larger than one election cycle.  Maybe we must break the insupportable status quo to build something better, fairer, more just.  Or maybe we in our naivete will only make things worse for trying.

            I so wish the choice were different.    

            Advisors for President-Elect Barack Obama feared the new administration would face a coup if it prosecuted Bush-era war crimes, according to a new report out this morning.

            by Kurt Sperry on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 04:15:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Again: you don't vote for someone to represent you (0+ / 0-)

              You vote for the leader that you'd prefer to lobby.

              In my avatar, the blue bars show how many want Reps who COMPROMISE; the aqua bars show who wants Reps who STAND FAST no matter what. (Left=Overall; Center=Democrats; Right=Republicans.) And there's the problem!

              by Seneca Doane on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 06:17:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Whoever Wins, We Lose Then (0+ / 0-)

                Because I don't expect either Obama or the Republican nominee to listen to anyone but the 1% on any issue that effects that 1% in the pocketbook.  Lobby = money today, and we will be outlobbied every time.  

                Advisors for President-Elect Barack Obama feared the new administration would face a coup if it prosecuted Bush-era war crimes, according to a new report out this morning.

                by Kurt Sperry on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 06:57:54 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Often true, but there are obvious counterexamples (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  beach babe in fl

                  to that.  It's not "every time" that we lose, by a long shot.

                  In my avatar, the blue bars show how many want Reps who COMPROMISE; the aqua bars show who wants Reps who STAND FAST no matter what. (Left=Overall; Center=Democrats; Right=Republicans.) And there's the problem!

                  by Seneca Doane on Tue Oct 04, 2011 at 10:54:44 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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