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View Diary: ALEC scandal goes international - UK Knighthood, Thatcher and 3M involved (80 comments)

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  •  excellent coverage (21+ / 0-)

    thanks for the news.

    "What's the use of a fine house if you haven't got a tolerable planet to put it on?" Henry David Thoreau

    by wade norris on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 01:52:20 PM PDT

    •  Thanks back for participating in the discussion (7+ / 0-)

      about ALEC and the Conservative agenda.  Sadly it isn't just us here in America suffering under their demands for rule by minority.  I almost wish we were, so we'd have somewhere to turn for help...but they're everywhere now.

      "Inmates should be reformed - not recycled"

      by Bob Sloan on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 02:54:21 PM PDT

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      •  expose - isolate - confine. (16+ / 0-)

        That's the strategy we need to take for ALEC and each and every one of its corporate and individual members:

        Expose them: we're doing that now.

        Isolate them: break their ties to each other, break up their networks: through legislation, court battles ("conspiracy in restraint of trade"? something else?), physical interference and disruption (noisy protests including waves of sit-ins in the locations that are the nexus of power in these organizations; cyber sit-ins), other.  (Serious research is needed to develop cyber sit-in tactics that are less legally high-stakes than the ones presently being used.)

        Confine them: find the ones who can be charged with criminal offenses or subjected to civil law suits, and bombard & barrage them accordingly.  Use whatever information can be found to make these people so publicly toxic that they become a PR nightmare for any organization that tries to have any connection with them.  

        For these tasks to fully succeed, we need an army of lawyers and another army of financial professionals, all of whom are willing to devote a certain amount of volunteer time to these causes until there is money (e.g. from lawsuits) to keep the effort going on a fully paid basis.  At that point it becomes "attrition warfare" to take down the individuals who are involved: keeping them under constant siege, draining their time, attention, efforts, wealth, and various other resources, until they cry "uncle!" and go away.   They will not go away easily, but with sufficient effort, they can be made to go away, whether of their own free will or not.  

        "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 05:34:40 PM PDT

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        •  We also need new laws (6+ / 0-)

          that REQUIRE legislators to be transparent about their connections with these groups and that require groups like ALEC to be transparent about their goals.

          But it seems to me that RICO could be invoked since there was a conspiracy to keep this push for anti democratic legislation secret.

          Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. - Mark Twain

          by glitterscale on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 06:29:28 PM PDT

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          •  Like this: (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ohiodem1, glitterscale

            First of all, yes, we could try to push through legislation that requires legislators to disclose all of their organizational affiliations, for example, each year:

            Every organization that they or their spouse or any person in which they have a business partnership with:

            a) have given money to or received money from, including anything having monetary value such as travel and accommodation expenses.

            b) have attended any meeting of, whether physically in person or via telecommunications means such as teleconferences.  

            However, the chances of getting legislators to legislate something that limits their money-connections, are approximately nil, unless we can join forces between OWS and the libertarian wing of the Tea Party.   It would take a seriously reformist-minded administration and key people in Congress to pull this off, aided by mass public pressure.  

            As far as RICO is concerned, you would have to make a credible allegation of criminal conduct and then demonstrate that the participants formed a criminal organization.  That is highly unlikely: it wasn't even done to the Catholic Church when there were thousands of molested children as victims.

            "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

            by G2geek on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 08:25:02 PM PDT

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            •  We can legislate with initiative petitions. (5+ / 0-)

              I can only speak for Ohio, and each state is different, but we can do legislation through initiative petition, and we can do constitutional amendments through petition as well.

              In Ohio, we have the overturn of SB5 on the ballot this November, and this is actually citizen legislation to overturn an egregious act of our radical republican legislature and signed by our radical republican governor, ALEC alum John Kasich.

              It looks like will have legislation to overturn voter suppression legislation HB194 next November, in the meantime, the radreps can't enforce it until it comes up for the vote, which preserves both the 2011 and 2012 elections and prevents the implementation of radrep voter suppression.

              Getting the sigs is expensive, but we need to fight fire with fire, and squelch radical republicanism advanced in all 50 states by ALEC.

              Republicans are like alligators. All mouth and no ears.

              by Ohiodem1 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 09:02:23 PM PDT

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              •  yes and yes; and excellent work. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mrsgoo, peptabysmal, Ohiodem1

                The amount of work needed to fight these people is as if we're dealing with a bubonic plague pandemic.  

                We have an initiative process here in California too, but for the most part it has become thoroughly corrupted by monied interests.  

                However, use every opportunity, use every means, and don't stop until you drop.  

                "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

                by G2geek on Sun Oct 09, 2011 at 01:35:43 AM PDT

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              •  These initiative efforts pay off imo (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                marina, Bob Sloan, peptabysmal, Ohiodem1

                by educating folks.  People don't get  good information and the recall efforts push the awareness up to the people's consciousness.

                Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. - Mark Twain

                by glitterscale on Sun Oct 09, 2011 at 06:06:57 AM PDT

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          •  Many of us have tried to accuse them of RICO (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mrsgoo, glitterscale

            - civil and criminal due to all the documents we have.  With their alumni and confederates within the DOJ, we can't get anyone to seriously look at their activities.  The IRS has so far ignored Common Cause's complaint to them, so we're still trying.  With the crap going on in the UK maybe we can now convince our AG to get involved.

            "Inmates should be reformed - not recycled"

            by Bob Sloan on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 10:07:37 PM PDT

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            •  It would seem that the IRS is a little busy right (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              now going after growers and shops in CA.

              Wolverines and Badgers and Buckeyes - Oh My! Be Afraid Kochroaches. Be very afraid.

              by mrsgoo on Sun Oct 09, 2011 at 01:38:22 AM PDT

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              •  Ain't that a sign of the times? The President (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                says they won't enforce the federal marijuana prohibition in states where it is legal for medical purposes...and a couple of years later, here they are preparing to go after them in a big way from different directions.

                One can only theorize why the change in policy. Obviously somebody got to he or his admin on this and convinced him to rethink his position.

                "Inmates should be reformed - not recycled"

                by Bob Sloan on Sun Oct 09, 2011 at 07:31:36 AM PDT

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        •  Precisely and accurately stated! n/t (0+ / 0-)

          "Inmates should be reformed - not recycled"

          by Bob Sloan on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 10:05:11 PM PDT

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      •  Where is ALEC's main HQ's located? (6+ / 0-)

         I think that as the Movement begun on Wall Street grows in this Nation (and wherever else it may go), it would be good to know not only who these people are that are pulling so many strings, but where they are as well.
          Where, for example is NewsCorp headquartered, and Kock Industries, and so on.
          Yes, Wall Street and the too big to fail financial institutions crashed the economy, and are acting as if it never happened, but these guys are even worse because their war on the Middle Class (the 99% really) is quite intentional, and contains a meanness of spirit that goes beyond mere greed all the way to malevelence.
           And these guys are tremendously outnumbered because a lot of the 1% don't much care for them either.
          And a close look at their practices shows how un-American they really are. These are the same people who were in the Fifth Column back in the 1930's.

        "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

        by elwior on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 05:47:18 PM PDT

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