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View Diary: The End of Wall Street: a Steady-State Economy (79 comments)

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  •  colonialism or feudalism... (3+ / 0-)
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    highacidity, kait, wu ming

    This: " the disruption of functional systems and pauperization of indigenous interests and local elites in favor of the extractive power" can be described as internal colonialism, or as feudalism.   I can go either way on that.

    Neoliberal chickens coming home to roost: nice phrase.

    Re. non-capitalist markets economies:

    This can be considered "free enterprise systems other than capitalism."

    These have tended to live within amorphous localized limits, as determined by factors such as the impact of weather on crops, the availability of labor for production beyond bare essentials, and so on.  

    As long as the limits are amorphous and "soft," these systems work in the manner in which we understand them historically.   Once we hit the "hard limits" where population and consumption overshoot resources, suddenly we're in new territory: where there is not room for amorphous growth as part of a cycle that overall averages to steady state.  The entire circumstance changes to a zero-sum game where a gain at any point is necessarily offset by a loss at some other point, and the time dimension shrinks to "flat," such that those impacts are immediate rather than variably delayed.  

    Those factors make it increasingly difficult to get by without some kind of central planning to manage the downsides.  

    The longer we wait to deal with our population/ consumption/ resources issues, the fewer the solutions that remain.  Hence back to what we said about colonialism and feudalism, or socialism.  

    "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

    by G2geek on Mon Oct 10, 2011 at 06:54:18 AM PDT

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    •  not all that local, historically (5+ / 0-)
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      tacet, Odysseus, badger, marsanges, kait

      there were vast, regional international trading networks in the precapitalist world, with high levels of complexity (and of course correspondingly robust governmental involvement in matters of regulation, standards, countercyclical market intervention, social welfare and basic infrastructure). for many in asia, colonialization was a great leap backwards economically, those networks had to be destroyed in order for wealth to be siphoned back to europe, in a manner very familiar to the situation these days.

      but yeah, hitting hard limits is bad news, historically and now. the period i study (10th-14th centuries) had a very sharp cool/dry period that suddenly reduced the agricultural carrying capacity of east asia in a matter of decades, and drove china's center of gravity quite a bit southwards (hello mongols!). people are just now paying attention to the weather, because of awareness of the insane science experiment we're running on the globe in realtime.

      •  there's a huge chunk of history we need to know. (1+ / 0-)
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        In the US, "history" typically means Europe.  Most of us are ignorant of the complexities of Asian history.  This is something we need to know about.  What you said about complex economies and government intervention, until the era of colonialism: that is information we need.  

        You could translate all of that into a form that folks here can understand.  And it would add immeasurably to the discussion.

        "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Mon Oct 10, 2011 at 04:44:15 PM PDT

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