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View Diary: A space of our own: A Women's Perspective on OccupyBoston clicks (76 comments)

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  •  This is important and I have to admit that (7+ / 0-)

    when I see Ministry of Truth getting all this press that is so wonderful, I wonder if it could have happened for a woman? Or for a person of color? Is he easier to listen to because he is a white male?

    And then I have all these issues because I am raising two young, white men in today's culture and I want them to proud and confident but I also want them to understand how they have a responsibility beyond themselves without putting the weight of the world on their shoulders.

    These are hard things.

    •  At least MOT is working class (and also proudly (6+ / 0-)

      uses that term to describe himself), I take comfort in that; he is using his fame for good purposes and not self-aggrandisement. But I also wonder about the same role being served by a woman or a person of colour, would the same response have been offered to them even if they were as articulate as MOT? I do not want to take anything away from him; it is excellent that people are listening to what he is saying, even more so that he is such a humble guy, he has done so well and I am really proud of him.

      It is so important that your sons know that they have a responsibility to others. it doesn't necessarily mean that they are getting the world on their shoulders, but to understand how your behaviour and words affect others and that others are deserving of the same respect that you think that you should have is a basic principle that is the first step towards understanding social responsibility and cooperation. :) this is another one of those things that I learned from my mother, bless her!

      "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

      by NY brit expat on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 06:48:58 PM PDT

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    •  Especially given (9+ / 0-)

      that he doesn't interact much with the collective. He doesn't sit in general assemblies or work with any working groups. He and Hank are independent operators. It could be argued that there is an important reason to independent journalistic types. But the media, and DailyKos, have proclaimed him a face of the movement when he doesn't participate in a core part of what the movement is about: working in and for the collective.

      Don't get me wrong, I love Jesse and he has a gift for combative dialog.  But would a woman get away with this? Or would the collective turn on her?

      Please remember to Witness Revolution. It means so much to them that we pay attention.

      by UnaSpenser on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 07:16:40 PM PDT

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      •  Interesting. (4+ / 0-)

        Thanks Una, for all that you do.

        If corporations are people, then I want to see some birth certificates and talk to their parents.

        by Onomastic on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 07:22:57 PM PDT

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      •  Nobody should get to coopt the basic purpose of (5+ / 0-)

        the movement which, at this point, it to try to create a collective, democratic whole -- no individual man, no woman, no political party, etc.  We are always so busy try to get power over others, to mould them to our will or speak for them without asking them what they think!

        Am worried about tomorrow morning what will happen at Wall Street.  If they oust occupiers, mu suggestion is that we either retake it Saturday with the big demo or take our collapsable chairs (which are legal) and pull a cindy sheehan and go occupy Times Square in front of the Army Recruiting Station!

        Tomorrow will be an intersting day.

        •  I don't think Jesse is trying to co-opt the (8+ / 0-)

          movement. He is very committed to calling out the abuses of power and connecting the dots from money in politics to corporately controlled media. So, he's speaking his truth and he does it very well. He's not ruffled by interviewers who are not practicing journalism in good faith. It's impressive.

          He simply does it on his own. Since autonomy is a protected right in the Collective Thinking/Participatory Democracy/Consensus Decision-Making system, no one can deny him his right to a rogue act.

          In fact, I've been surprised to see that HankNYNY put links in his diaries - which Jesse then started using as they teamed up - and called it a media fund and, early on, led people to believe it was THE media fund for the media center at Zuccoti Park. He later admitted, that because he struggled to figure out how to work with the media team, the fund was his personal fund. He had bought himself equipment. (He did use some of the money, early on, for the media team, but he ended up thinking of the fund as his own.) Once he finally admitted that the fund was his, there was zero backlash from that. Would a women get away with that?

          Jesse and Hank are both comfortable in front of a camera and comfortable being confrontational and domineering in a conversation. (Neither seems to be aware that they are doing it. They mean well.)  Both white male. Both unable to really plug into the collective. Both operating on its fringes. What about that taps into our psyches and convinces us to celebrate them as heroes of a movement which is supposed to be about cooperative governance? And, again, would a woman ever have pulled this off? We need to examine this.

          Please remember to Witness Revolution. It means so much to them that we pay attention.

          by UnaSpenser on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 10:30:15 PM PDT

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          •  Thanks for the information Una. (4+ / 0-)

            You're right, we do need to examine this.

            If corporations are people, then I want to see some birth certificates and talk to their parents.

            by Onomastic on Fri Oct 14, 2011 at 03:20:32 AM PDT

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          •  As one who has rogue individualistic tendencies my (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            UnaSpenser

            self, I know that "meaning well" is not enough.  Over the years I have learned to be grateful for the process structures that collectives have put into place (though I used to make fun of them0 -- primarily because they keep me in line!  And sometimes I have trouble following them (like not interrupting).  So I think we all have to look at ourselves and each other.  The Liberation Theology guy's comment about act and reflect -- Maoists also used criticism, self-criticism.  when it doesn't get compulsive, crazy and punitive, it is a very effective technique.

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